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Post by skywalker on Feb 15, 2011 20:31:15 GMT -6
Hi, Jo.
Who is your great, great uncle? Clyde Barrow of Bonnie and Clyde fame? If so, I saw that car when it was on display here in Texas years ago. I didn't look for any blood but I did think it was an interesting historical artifact. I think it tells the story of what happened better than words ever could.
All historical memorabilia does as far as I am concerned. I have studied history all of my life and I collect historical artifacts, among other things. Two of the time periods I am fascinated by are Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union when Stalin was in power. I am not sure why two of the darkest periods in the history of mankind would hold such a strong attraction for me, unless you consider what exactly it is about them that I am fascinated with.
It's not the blood and torture and the ruthless barbaric quest for power that I am interested in, but rather the courage and determination of the victims who were forced to endure it. The items I collect are simple things that remind me of that...a gold Star of David that Jews were forced to sew on their clothing in order to identify who they were...a hand-made embroidered pillow-case that a political prisoner in a Soviet gulag was forced to weave...when you hold things like that in your hand you truly understand what those time-periods were all about.
It is hard to believe that things like that could have taken place in recent history...and even harder to believe that they are still taking place in certain parts of the world now.
I don't know what a Koran written in the blood of a blood-thirsty dictator is supposed to symbolize, unless maybe it is a metaphor for the blood of all the innocent people he murdered in his quest for power. I can only assume that the reason he did it was to satisfy his ego. He probably saw himself as some great Muslim leader who wanted to leave behind some priceless artifact that future Muslims would worship, similar to the Shroud of Turin perhaps. It probably will be priceless, but not for the reasons he envisioned.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 2:07:41 GMT -6
Yep..Uncle Clyde the family shame. "That" side of my family were all southerners (actually mostly Texans ) and they weren't upset because Clyde was a bank robber..they were upset because of his..sexual persuasion. Bonnie really was just his friend. Doesn't bother the later generations of family but my father and his kin were properly horrified...didn't fit in with Southern Baptist upbringing LOL. He also did not look like Warren Beatty Never know what you might find if you shake a family tree
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 3:56:17 GMT -6
That's awesome! I didn't know he was gay... ~shrug~ My great great uncle was Robert E. Lee... or was it great great great uncle? ~shrug~ I forgot. I remember at the university one of the other students' last name was "Lee" and the professor asked him (during roll-call) if he was related to Robert E. Lee. The student said, "No." Then he finally came to my name. I said "I'm here, and I AM related to Robert E. Lee." Everyone turned around to stare at me and the professor laughed... lol... he wasn't expecting that because of my last name you see. Shh... I'm listed on the official website for him as one of his relatives. ~smirk~ I'm also descended from Martha Washington on my mother's side (Martha had kids from a previous marriage before she married George), and I'm related to O'Henry the famous American author dude who wrote the Gift of the Magi...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 10:57:48 GMT -6
Well...evidently blood isn't everything.. I know my 'pedigree' back to the 1300's and Clyde's (and my) long ago direct ancestor was a knight who became an Earl of essex and two of his sons were knights. Quite proper English types..then..apparently the limbs of the tree twisted into more sinister activities LOL when Clyde came along. I have a 'passing' kissing cousin relationship to Frank and Jessie James way back when too. I consider them colorful additions and hide my nefarious bent as well as I can I discovered I have 4 family crests but my favorite ancestors were the Sioux Indian House and the Scottish Clansman, Adam Wylie..if I could go back in time..those two I'd like to 'meet' Now can you believe it..apparently I'm no hybred or 'starchild' couldn't find a single 'ET' on my tree
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Post by auntym on Feb 16, 2011 11:59:16 GMT -6
WOW....i love family history....one of my favorite programs is WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?
so far i haven't shook anyone interesting out of my family tree, mostly pirates & thieves.... but, i am related to a lord who was hung for stealing sheep....LOL....poor soul, life took an unfortunate turn for him...
no one interesting yet.....but, i'm still looking....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 14:40:26 GMT -6
LOL we're probably related then..I've got thief branch too
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Post by casper on Feb 16, 2011 18:39:53 GMT -6
I'm related to a thief but they let him out of jail already.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 18:57:16 GMT -6
Well...evidently blood isn't everything.. I know my 'pedigree' back to the 1300's and Clyde's (and my) long ago direct ancestor was a knight who became an Earl of essex and two of his sons were knights. Quite proper English types..then..apparently the limbs of the tree twisted into more sinister activities LOL when Clyde came along. I have a 'passing' kissing cousin relationship to Frank and Jessie James way back when too. I consider them colorful additions and hide my nefarious bent as well as I can I discovered I have 4 family crests but my favorite ancestors were the Sioux Indian House and the Scottish Clansman, Adam Wylie..if I could go back in time..those two I'd like to 'meet' Now can you believe it..apparently I'm no hybred or 'starchild' couldn't find a single 'ET' on my tree I couldn't find a single "ET' on my tree either... although when I was a child I insisted I came from another planet... LOL... and my sister came from a different planet than I did. That's amazing that you can track your family back that far... I can only track my father's side back to 1632 (when his ancestor left Scottland.... yes he arrived in the New World before the pilgrims did...). I am his direct descendant... descended from his sons sons sons sons so I still have his last name... although the spelling has slightly changed over the centuries. His name was "Marion" which was a man's name back then I guess... like the Italian name "Mario". He made furniture it seems. ~shrug~ Apparently there is French Nobility on my father's side as well. One of my barbaric Scottish wilderness ancestors married a French Nobelwoman (Transplant American) and is buried in her family cemetary. I guess they didn't want him buried there (that's what the family book says) but he ended up there anyhow... LOL... My mother's maiden name is Smith you see... so it's difficult to research HER side of the family... LOL... I just repeat what she tells me... and the fact that I'm officially listed in Mormon records as being related to John D. Lee (speaking of traitors and murderers LOL...) and am also listed as being related to Robert E. Lee. @ Casper... LOL...
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Post by skywalker on Feb 16, 2011 19:24:08 GMT -6
This is interesting about the family trees and ancestors. Perhaps we should put this on a new thread. I don't know much about my ancestors because my family is extremely poor at record keeping and remembering things like that. I do know that my great grandfather immigrated to the United States from Hungary during World War 1. That country was one of the enemies of the US at that time. He had eight sons, seven of whom were drafted into the army and probably killed in the war. His last remaining son was 12 years old and about to be drafted so he left everything behind and immigrated to the US in order to save the life of his last remaining son. He lost everything because of the war, but at least I am here to tell about it. I would like to write a book about it one of these years if I could ever find out the details of what happened. I bet it would make a fantastic story.
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Post by paulette on Feb 16, 2011 21:39:03 GMT -6
My father's family had relatives in East Germany. I remember as a child they assembled a care package with asprin and band-aides and stuff (I think they were given a list) and mailed off - never knew if it got through so they didn't send another. My father was Paul Otto but I became Paulette Ottilie (Frenchified German). I remember various people speaking German in the home when I was very young.
Much later I watched a long documentary on the Holocaust and discovered that the man who invented one of early death vans had the same last name. Its not a common name and I "knew" that I'm related to him somehow.
Then I discovered that my mother's great grandmother had an identifiably Jewish name - Anna Yensch. So I had relatives on both sides of the barbed wire. None of this was talked about of course by my parents. My mother told me her family was French. Her maiden name was definitely not French - I would guess Jewish as well.
I wish I knew. I searched (lightly) and only came up with the family last name with a St. in front of it - French again apparently. My father seemed satisfied with that interpretation and hung the crest up in the living room. Yeah right!
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Post by skywalker on Feb 16, 2011 22:41:53 GMT -6
It's sad that people are still having to deal with that mess.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2011 22:59:15 GMT -6
That is a big knot of worms. People coming over from other countries (especially through Ellis Island) shortened their names or had them 'changed' for them..so a lot of family histories are lost. I'm just one of the lucky ones that my family was as clannish as it is about their heritage. Didn't mean a fig to me growing up but awhile back I took up ancestry.com's 'freebee' deal. They give a two week trial and in that time I found everyone on the tree. It's gotten so big that when other people find what they're looking for it becomes part of public resource. I'm sure that if I wanted to buy their 'elite' package I could have gone back farther but that Scottish ancestor has made me cheap LOL. Wasn't hard at all to find them. Also if anyone did have immigrants through Ellis they offer a free search through their records www.ellisisland.org/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 0:43:50 GMT -6
My father's family had relatives in East Germany. I remember as a child they assembled a care package with asprin and band-aides and stuff (I think they were given a list) and mailed off - never knew if it got through so they didn't send another. My father was Paul Otto but I became Paulette Ottilie (Frenchified German). I remember various people speaking German in the home when I was very young. Much later I watched a long documentary on the Holocaust and discovered that the man who invented one of early death vans had the same last name. Its not a common name and I "knew" that I'm related to him somehow. Then I discovered that my mother's great grandmother had an identifiably Jewish name - Anna Yensch. So I had relatives on both sides of the barbed wire. None of this was talked about of course by my parents. My mother told me her family was French. Her maiden name was definitely not French - I would guess Jewish as well. I wish I knew. I searched (lightly) and only came up with the family last name with a St. in front of it - French again apparently. My father seemed satisfied with that interpretation and hung the crest up in the living room. Yeah right! My mother's father was probably of German descent, but he would never have admitted it because he was a POW in Italy. The Nazis almost starved him to death mom said. He had stomach problems up until the day he died because of the damage they did to his digestion. He had to eat very small meals all day, he couldn't eat a whole meal in one sitting... My mom told me he used to play chess with the German guards and if he would win they would give him chocolate bars. He got to be very good at chess... or "Schach" which is the German word for it. I probably spelled it wrong though... Mom claims that he saw the line of Jewish people waiting to go to the gas chamber and almost got in the wrong line. A German guard pointed him to the right line. The people in the other line were told they were going to have a "shower". Creepy. Very creepy... He wouldn't even let my mother buy a VW when she turned 16 and she really wanted one... he told people he was English. ~shrug~ With a last name like "Smith" I'm not surprised because after the FIRST world war a lot of German-Americans changed their German names to Smith... The reason why I think he was German is because of his facial features... and my mother's teeth. She told me her father told her her teeth were "English Teeth" like his. They aren't. They look like Arnold Schwarzenegger teeth... LOL... the stereotypical German-looking teeth which one sees in old WWII propaganda cartoons which they exaggerated of course... however maybe he WAS English. The Anglo-Saxons were Germans too... they just left Germany a longer time ago... "Land" is the German word for "Country". Angol-Land became England... yea... ~shrug~
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Post by skywalker on Feb 17, 2011 7:02:53 GMT -6
Mom claims that he saw the line of Jewish people waiting to go to the gas chamber and almost got in the wrong line. A German guard pointed him to the right line. The people in the other line were told they were going to have a "shower". Creepy. Very creepy... I've read about those "showers". It seems to Nazis went out of their way to hide what they were doing, even to the people they were doing it to. They even had fake shower heads installed in the gas chambers to fool the people right up to the very end. I guess abusive governments take their lies very seriously. If they didn't they might not have gotten away with it for as long as they did.
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Post by paulette on Feb 17, 2011 10:19:23 GMT -6
There is a terrible black and white film that was shot by the arriving Allies. It was a concentration camp and they (I'm not sure who they were) forced the people in the nearby village to personally carry corpses and throw them into a grave. Women were forced to look at piles of bodies. In fact, the neighboring towns often had slave workers at their farmers and factories and were aware of their deteriorating condition. Some allowed them to take or smuggle out food. Some did not.
But I will say this. We (here in North America) can be very indignant about that particular Holocaust. It was truly horrible. However. There have been many since and some of those in the Americas. People have been killed or run off their land everywhere. Babies starved etc. I will never forget when Life Magazine ran a picture of a Kurdish grandmother or mother and a baby - dead of poison gas. I had thought the Kurds were herdsmen, but then I read that when they had to flee into the mountains some left their cars, their modern houses, and the women were in high heels and had to try to hike in them (they broke the heels off). They buried children as they went. At that time I believe that the USA were still in friendly relations with Iran. I tried to imagine having run away in whatever I had worn to work that day (and I don't wear high heels but still I got it).
Africa is killing its own. No one seems to be applying political pressure on those areas. Or maybe it can't be stopped.
We are angry monkeys who turn on our own kind. Again I have to say - why would ET visitors or dolphins or anyone else TALK to us?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2011 16:33:26 GMT -6
There is a terrible black and white film that was shot by the arriving Allies. It was a concentration camp and they (I'm not sure who they were) forced the people in the nearby village to personally carry corpses and throw them into a grave. Women were forced to look at piles of bodies. In fact, the neighboring towns often had slave workers at their farmers and factories and were aware of their deteriorating condition. Some allowed them to take or smuggle out food. Some did not. But I will say this. We (here in North America) can be very indignant about that particular Holocaust. It was truly horrible. However. There have been many since and some of those in the Americas. People have been killed or run off their land everywhere. Babies starved etc. I will never forget when Life Magazine ran a picture of a Kurdish grandmother or mother and a baby - dead of poison gas. I had thought the Kurds were herdsmen, but then I read that when they had to flee into the mountains some left their cars, their modern houses, and the women were in high heels and had to try to hike in them (they broke the heels off). They buried children as they went. At that time I believe that the USA were still in friendly relations with Iran. I tried to imagine having run away in whatever I had worn to work that day (and I don't wear high heels but still I got it). Africa is killing its own. No one seems to be applying political pressure on those areas. Or maybe it can't be stopped. We are angry monkeys who turn on our own kind. Again I have to say - why would ET visitors or dolphins or anyone else TALK to us? You're right paulette. Mankind does terrible things to itself. If I was an advanced being, I wouldn't want to talk to us either... But... if you think about it... they do bad things too. Cattle mutilations for example. Painful medical experiments done without anesthesia. The story about the man who ended up on top of a pile of coal, dead as a doornail. Maybe they think we don't deserve better because of what we do to ourselves... ~shrug~ The question I have is... why do they think some of us should be spoken to, and others should not be? They don't try to communicate with everyone...
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Post by skywalker on Feb 18, 2011 9:20:22 GMT -6
Maybe they think that we can change things. Mankind as a whole is obviously not listening to the ET's...governments just want to capture them for the power they could gain from it...militaries want to blast them out of the skies...maybe the aliens think if they appear to a few people who are open-minded enough to listen then maybe we will spread the word and convince others.
One of the theories that I keep hearing about alien abductions is that it seems to be hereditary, meaning that one generation after another in the same family will have the experiences. I wonder if any of our ancestors had these experiences?
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Post by lois on Feb 19, 2011 22:09:33 GMT -6
I will try this again .. my post on this thread would not post the other night..
I'm from Scottish decent.. My great all the way back to the twelfth century.. There was two brothers who were Norsemen, or rather vikings who came down to the Isle of Ski, name Mac lead, or better known as Mac loud.. I'm a descended of the brother Harris..
The history book state no one today knows where his grave is.
He married a Mackintosh who was from a enemy clan. They stole away on a boat and made it to Canada. Then they came down through the Great Lakes and settled here in Illinois.. They were my Great Grandparents. Does anyone here descendants of any Scottish clan? I told Stiver once my grand mother was name Isabelle.
I have a great grandfather who was the brother of Napoleon.. he was deported and came to America.. not so good.
Then I have a great grandfather which Randy and I share. also Terri Gaar the Actress, it is spelled Gar and Gaar. I notice it one day on Randy's profile. So I pm him on Mufon.. Micheal Gaar who came over to Virginia in the first German Settlement of 1717.. The English paid there wages over on the boat .. Then they had to work for the English till it was paid off. When they were free to go settle somewhere, the English give them land west to the mountains. They told if we get an uprising they will have to come through the German settlement first. It was not very nice..
I can tell you the family tree from Micheal down to me.. All the family and their entire lives.
The rest of my family came from England..
Lois
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Post by lois on Feb 19, 2011 22:18:11 GMT -6
I have to correct my post, Harris did not come over here. ha his descendent did. John Mac lead
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 22:28:13 GMT -6
I have a Scottish ancestor Lois. John Wylie (1602) is a direct ancestor and through him we have sept ties to Clan Gunn and Clan MacFarlane which means we can wear either Gunn or MacFarlane tartans and have 3 coat of arms. I never knew about him until recently but I'm guessing that's where the red hair & green eyes come from. My grandmother was a redhead and I inherited it too. His father was Thomas Craig (yet another clan who was a well known feudal lawyer) Interesting stuff but it was more interesting to discover that I have some of the most prolific and long lived people I've ever seen. Even way way back they lived into their 60's and 70's and sheesh most of them had at least 8 kids. Huge families and they almost all lived which was amazing in eras of disease and dismal medical practices. I'd have to guess there was a healer or two..I know there were several 'seers'.
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Post by lois on Feb 19, 2011 22:29:09 GMT -6
These Mac leads have reunion in Canada. I don't recall how often.. many... many go up there to it. My sisters have gone three times. They bring me back clothing of Mac lead plaid, I have so much here in my house. My sister has a couple of silver steins with the coat of arms on them which John and his wife Christina brought with them on the boat..
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Post by lois on Feb 19, 2011 22:31:40 GMT -6
Jo, I have red blonde hair and green eyes, and do I mean green ;D
Nice to know you are a descendent.. thanks for posting it..
Lois
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Post by lois on Feb 19, 2011 22:34:57 GMT -6
What was Napoleon's brother supposed to have none anyway.. My family says he went after one of Napoleons women.. only joking of course
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 22:36:22 GMT -6
That's so cool Lois..to find something in common with someone I like so much
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Post by lois on Feb 19, 2011 22:46:14 GMT -6
There is a fairy flag hanging in the Maclead Castle of Dunvegan.. , which men take a tiny piece of when they go off to war. they say it keeps them safe. Well during world war two I believe not one Maclead was killed or injured.. I have many pictures of it my sisters also had taken. but only the outside as the inside no cameras were allowed. My father when I was young always wrote to a great Aunt over there who lived in a castle. but a small one of course .. she died and we do not know who her descendents are today.. Lois
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Post by lois on Feb 19, 2011 22:52:45 GMT -6
Last Post ;D
We are descendants of a pirate, but never talk about him.. He was the captain of a ship and back in the early part of the 1800 he brought family gifts to Maryland I believe which they thougth may of been stolen good.. Now this is written in my collection of papers back to another great grandmother.. ;D
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Post by skywalker on Feb 19, 2011 23:14:48 GMT -6
That is so cool! I can't believe the two of you know som much about your ancient relatives like that. I barely even know who my brothers are. I would like to hear more about this pirate captain. He sounds like my type of a dude. Arrghhh!
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Post by lois on Mar 9, 2011 21:40:06 GMT -6
I will have to get out the records and see what his name was.. I don't even remember except it was my moms dads side.. the James. it was told I could be related to jessie james.. my great grandfather looks just like jessie, his name was samuel james. maybe a great uncle something like that.. he would of been related to jessies father..
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Post by lois on Mar 9, 2011 21:42:54 GMT -6
That would be two bandits in the family both from the James side.. ;D ;D One skeletons in the closet my Mother never talked about..
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Post by skywalker on Mar 9, 2011 21:45:44 GMT -6
Shami the Pirate. Aarrrgghh! ;D
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