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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2011 3:15:36 GMT -6
Don't get us wrong government spies... we *love* the government! We *love* paying our taxes too! ;D
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Post by heyrolled on Oct 1, 2011 7:38:20 GMT -6
...If the Sighting Report website that you started gets big enough don't be surprised if sooner or later some slippery snake-oil salesman is knocking on your door and dangling a stack of cash in front of. Beware when he does. The man may look like Robert Bigelow but in reality it will be Uncle Sam's Big Brother in his shadowy disguise. The whole concept of how SightingsReport.com works is meant to prevent something like this. It is not a top-down, structured organization like the others. The website is designed to be run by the witnesses, investigators, and website members themselves - as a community. The only information that isn't made public is the personal information submitted by the witnesses. The second possibility is that they may be trying to destroy the UFO community It's not that hard to do when you can turn like-minded people against each other. I've learned that by working as a community activist in my local community. The powers-that-be will always win if they can find a way to split your group into multiple groups. "Divide and conquer" is very effective. If you're working for a cause, you've got to find a way to keep the cohesiveness alive. That seems to be what MUFON has lost. As an alternative (shameless plug here)... SightingsReport.com is slowly getting going and has several real live reports submitted. I'd like to invite anyone tired of the drama to look at the site... I would be happy to chat with you and answer questions.
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Post by swamprat on Oct 1, 2011 10:46:10 GMT -6
Regarding hbccufo.org I think bob Vike was wanting to retire and BAASS gave him that opportunity. However, bob still blogs on "The Vike Factor". Has anyone asked him what Baass's approach to the file reports has been? hbccuforesearch.blogspot.com/Swamp
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Post by Steve on Oct 1, 2011 14:37:34 GMT -6
bob Vike decided to retire from UFO research reportedly. BAASS purchased Vikes websites & report data base for reportedly $600.00. Vikes former website now states his site is owned now by BAASS, and encourages those to still file reports there.
Steve
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Post by auntym on Jul 24, 2013 12:10:58 GMT -6
CHANGING OF THE GUARD AT MUFON Published on Jul 23, 2013 The 2013 MUFON Symposium was held in Las Vegas, Nevada and Open Minds was there. The theme was Science, UFOs, and the Search for ET. Alejandro Rojas interviewed many of the speakers and MUFON personnel. Two big stories from the conference was the announcement of a new International Director for MUFON, and the partnership between MUFON and France's GEIPAN. GEIPAN is France's official UFO investigation organization. It is a part of the CNES, France's space organization, similar to NASA here in the US. Read more at: www.openminds.tvFollow Open Minds on Twitter: www.twitter.com/openmindstvLike Open Minds on Facebook: www.facebook.com/om.ufomagazine
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Post by paulette on Jul 24, 2013 14:43:06 GMT -6
Be more social = not drive people away? Back to the analysis of "hard cases" - that's OK. But all cases have information. I've said this recently here (I think) - there seems to be a fade off of reports of personal contact (still a lot of blurry pictures of things in the sky and Internet hoaxes). If reporting abductions filled a deep neurotic (and dishonest need) - why not have ongoing cases? I personally wonder if the Earth has recently been given full protection from interaction status - and that this is being enforced somehow by someones.
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Post by skywalker on Jul 24, 2013 16:18:56 GMT -6
MUFON said they don't want people to think of them as some secretive organization that hides things? Where could they ever have gotten that idea from? It's too bad David MacDonald is stepping down. I thought he did a pretty decent job. Don't know how this Jan Harzan guy is going to be. I can't remember if I've said any thing bad about him in the past. I'll have to go back and look.
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Post by Steve on Jul 25, 2013 9:48:44 GMT -6
Be more social = not drive people away? Back to the analysis of "hard cases" - that's OK. But all cases have information. I've said this recently here (I think) - there seems to be a fade off of reports of personal contact (still a lot of blurry pictures of things in the sky and Internet hoaxes). If reporting abductions filled a deep neurotic (and dishonest need) - why not have ongoing cases? I personally wonder if the Earth has recently been given full protection from interaction status - and that this is being enforced somehow by someones. MUFON said they don't want people to think of them as some secretive organization that hides things? Where could they ever have gotten that idea from? It's too bad David MacDonald is stepping down. I thought he did a pretty decent job. Don't know how this Jan Harzan guy is going to be. I can't remember if I've said any thing bad about him in the past. I'll have to go back and look. Concerns about secrecy (not to be confused with witness confidentiality), lack of (or total absence of) analysis of important UFO cases, and being more personable with the public? All things I was harping on here years ago!
Sad David MacDonald is stepping down too. As for Jan Harzan, his wife must have finally relented and let him become International Director. He has been bucking for the job for ages. The 2011 Irvine, California Mufon Symposium was there at that location 'politically' by Harzan and So. California Mufon.
Harzan is also the creator of the Mufon CMS (Case Management System) (the servers for his CMS are not in some remote corporate site, but in Harzans garage at his home!!!!). This and consistently a high or highest monthly scores for cases completed in that same CMS, which Harzan has been the primary engine to that success rate, all make Harzan the inevitable choice.
I predicted wrongly that Harzan would be the new International Director in 2011, but happily I was wrong, and MacDonald was elected by Mufon's secret Board of Directors. MacDonald was a step in the right direction. MacDonald injecting common sense, urging case analysis, so time is not wasted on redundant dead end caces (what to follow on, what to ignore), and most importantly - many promoted or demoted based on merit, not influence. MacDonald's tenure has been too short, and wish him well. At least he and I have our life time memberships and mufon Journal till death us do part. Yawn! (the journal).
My personal thoughts of Harzan was he was friendly, efficient, and pro-active over the phone working with Northern California Mufon cases when I was then Chief Investigator and second Assistant State Director in Northern California. But personally at Mufon Symposiums, he came across quite memorably to many to all present as being distant, and cold. He constantly had a lap top attached to his body, and was constantly away from most, typing away on his laptop, at meetings, in hotel lobby's, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Probably showered with it too....lol. So if Mufon wishes to put on a more open friendly face, Mr. Harzan will need grooming and warmth.
However, many of LA Mufon's guest speakers though have been mostly first rate with speakers discussing some remarkable cases.
It seems that everything commented on at the latest Mufon Symposium about serious changes needed - were the very same ones me and many many others expressed to our disfavor by the powers that be then. Did something soak in and surface? I wouldn't hold your breath just yet. They were not listening then, or were afraid to. I'm sure me and others have been forgotten. Maybe their present ranks where dwindling and some asked finally why they left? What a wonderful new smell Mufon may have discovered....lol. As Tommy Lee Jones (the federal Marshall) says to Harrison Ford (fugitive) in the fabulous film 'The Fugitive' (1993) "I don't care!"
Many old farts stuck in a 1969 mentality need to move on, they are protecting their egotistical castles to the harm of everyone else around them trying to push forward and make some kind of sense. These old immobile ego/castles are like boulders in a river stream, good only for creating turbulence and erosion.
Positive steps in the right direction have been placing David MacDonald as International Director, replacing that 'whats his name Christmas tree farmer'....and very happily Kathleen Marden (Betty Hill's niece) replacing the useless Lester Velez in 'Abduction' areas of Mufon research.
California has more than it's share of those that need to retire and let positive changes happen. Otherwise, change will then just have to occur inevitably one funeral art a time. These old farts are constantly at the same conventions talking to the same old crowds, about OTHER investigator's cases, having not done a case of their own in literally years!
Stepping back, the last year has made me see more clearly than ever, Mufon despite what it proclaims is far and away NOT the center of the everything 'UFO'.
Wish Mr Harzan best wishes, and his lap top too. I think Harzan IS a laptop. LOL.
Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 26, 2013 7:34:13 GMT -6
Be more social = not drive people away? Back to the analysis of "hard cases" - that's OK. But all cases have information. I've said this recently here (I think) - there seems to be a fade off of reports of personal contact (still a lot of blurry pictures of things in the sky and Internet hoaxes). If reporting abductions filled a deep neurotic (and dishonest need) - why not have ongoing cases? I personally wonder if the Earth has recently been given full protection from interaction status - and that this is being enforced somehow by someones. Have abduction cases really diminished?
Abduction cases could be a combination of factors in our human society. If the claim of off world/or other dimension - abductors are the result of some Earth based human neurotic mental conditions, with the passing of Budd Hopkins and Dr. John Mack, may have made 'alien abductions' (popular significantly in the 1980's) out of fashion in popular culture.
BUT I have observed there might be two layers about 'abductions' reported perhaps as they appear in society and popular culture. If abduction cases were considered like a hard boiled 'egg' to use that analogy, there could be a social hysteria outer layer (the egg white) and a core more hidden from the outside looking in....of claims by 'experiencers' that has much more merit worthy of further attention and research - counseling (the yellow part of the egg).
Most lay people and the media looking for ratings see only the outer white layer of the abduction 'egg'. The more significant possibly credible cases may be a different number value and perhaps has remained consistent perhaps. Those with more credible cases have found more private avenues for reporting and seeking treatment or support away from a more public view.
Why? What has changed since the 1980's? Much of course. The Internet significantly. For better or worse, those persons of interest with more creditable and/or continuing cases of alien abductions now can contact a therapist or researcher sympathetic to their concerns over the internet for initial contact away from others.
These persons or even families do not necessarily attend Mufon meetings. Also there maybe a fear of Mufon wishing you to sign release forms so they can use your case displayed before the world for their popularity in the media for their own unfortunate interests. I had to turn down in the past a number of media requests when in Mufon protecting witness confidentiality several times. A television program named 'Monster Quest' even contacted me personally twice over time about one particular case. The witness and investigators involved thought wisely it best to stay completely away.
Then Mufon release forms in 2010/2011 subtly and ominously changed - the witnesses cases were not their own any more, but the 'property' of Mufon! (sic). In the past in effect, this was always the case with Mufon, but now the new relase forms seem since much more proprietory in tone. It seemed Mufon was more interested (always about money) with story or film rights type of things. The Mufon leadership of course remains immobile to change always with their hand out begging.
That is not the case with many core abduction researchers both in and more out of Mufon.
These are the real researcher /therapists as providers of treatment emotionally. I know most to all Mufon's core researchers NEVER place these CE-3/CE-4 cases in Mufon CMS files. They keep their own totally separate case files. HIPAA laws above and beyond any Mufon, combined with the MUFON CMS (Case management system) shocking lack of internet security - lacking protection from hackers (who ever they maybe) is well known within that community dealing with abduction cases.
So gauging whether abductions have diminished or not based the number of abduction case based on Mufon reports is misleading and very inaccurate at best. Most serious abduction cases do not exist in the CMS. I never put my cases for CE-3/CE-4's in the CMS.
My impression based on this seems to suggest - the outer egg white part of the phenomenon has evaporated some what - it isn't as popular. This probably gives the general overall impression 'abductions' are down. This 'white part of the egg' group should be discounted anyways. Budd Hopkins told me once he would get thousands of abduction claims, and spent much time filtering looking for cases of note worthy of his research.
At that core - the yellow part of the egg - the number of abductions could be more, or less, or even the same as has been in the past. Since total numbers are dissipated among many therapists files - it is impossible to tell total numbers, locations, times.
Summarizing, it just the way many maybe reporting and finding help away from public view in public perception...... and the other part of the 'alien abduction egg' - the neurotic 'egg white part' and the resulting 'social wake' part of the same egg has fewer public stories to feed itself on.
Alternately....if you take an 'off world view' of all this..... the actual number of 'real' claimed abductions may have indeed diminished. But the only ones that can answer that and why are by the possible 'off world beings' themselves. Most seem unavailable for comment. LOL.
Steve
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Post by lois on Jul 29, 2013 23:26:20 GMT -6
Be more social = not drive people away? Back to the analysis of "hard cases" - that's OK. But all cases have information. I've said this recently here (I think) - there seems to be a fade off of reports of personal contact (still a lot of blurry pictures of things in the sky and Internet hoaxes). If reporting abductions filled a deep neurotic (and dishonest need) - why not have ongoing cases? I personally wonder if the Earth has recently been given full protection from interaction status - and that this is being enforced somehow by someones. Have abduction cases really diminished?
Abduction cases could be a combination of factors in our human society. If the claim of off world/or other dimension - abductors are the result of some Earth based human neurotic mental conditions, with the passing of Budd Hopkins and Dr. John Mack, may have made 'alien abductions' (popular significantly in the 1980's) out of fashion in popular culture.
BUT I have observed there might be two layers about 'abductions' reported perhaps as they appear in society and popular culture. If abduction cases were considered like a hard boiled 'egg' to use that analogy, there could be a social hysteria outer layer (the egg white) and a core more hidden from the outside looking in....of claims by 'experiencers' that has much more merit worthy of further attention and research - counseling (the yellow part of the egg).
Most lay people and the media looking for ratings see only the outer white layer of the abduction 'egg'. The more significant possibly credible cases may be a different number value and perhaps has remained consistent perhaps. Those with more credible cases have found more private avenues for reporting and seeking treatment or support away from a more public view.
Why? What has changed since the 1980's? Much of course. The Internet significantly. For better or worse, those persons of interest with more creditable and/or continuing cases of alien abductions now can contact a therapist or researcher sympathetic to their concerns over the internet for initial contact away from others.
These persons or even families do not necessarily attend Mufon meetings. Also there maybe a fear of Mufon wishing you to sign release forms so they can use your case displayed before the world for their popularity in the media for their own unfortunate interests. I had to turn down in the past a number of media requests when in Mufon protecting witness confidentiality several times. A television program named 'Monster Quest' even contacted me personally twice over time about one particular case. The witness and investigators involved thought wisely it best to stay completely away.
Then Mufon release forms in 2010/2011 subtly and ominously changed - the witnesses cases were not their own any more, but the 'property' of Mufon! (sic). In the past in effect, this was always the case with Mufon, but now the new relase forms seem since much more proprietory in tone. It seemed Mufon was more interested (always about money) with story or film rights type of things. The Mufon leadership of course remains immobile to change always with their hand out begging.
That is not the case with many core abduction researchers both in and more out of Mufon.
These are the real researcher /therapists as providers of treatment emotionally. I know most to all Mufon's core researchers NEVER place these CE-3/CE-4 cases in Mufon CMS files. They keep their own totally separate case files. HIPAA laws above and beyond any Mufon, combined with the MUFON CMS (Case management system) shocking lack of internet security - lacking protection from hackers (who ever they maybe) is well known within that community dealing with abduction cases.
So gauging whether abductions have diminished or not based the number of abduction case based on Mufon reports is misleading and very inaccurate at best. Most serious abduction cases do not exist in the CMS. I never put my cases for CE-3/CE-4's in the CMS.
My impression based on this seems to suggest - the outer egg white part of the phenomenon has evaporated some what - it isn't as popular. This probably gives the general overall impression 'abductions' are down. This 'white part of the egg' group should be discounted anyways. Budd Hopkins told me once he would get thousands of abduction claims, and spent much time filtering looking for cases of note worthy of his research.
At that core - the yellow part of the egg - the number of abductions could be more, or less, or even the same as has been in the past. Since total numbers are dissipated among many therapists files - it is impossible to tell total numbers, locations, times.
Summarizing, it just the way many maybe reporting and finding help away from public view in public perception...... and the other part of the 'alien abduction egg' - the neurotic 'egg white part' and the resulting 'social wake' part of the same egg has fewer public stories to feed itself on.
Alternately....if you take an 'off world view' of all this..... the actual number of 'real' claimed abductions may have indeed diminished. But the only ones that can answer that and why are by the possible 'off world beings' themselves. Most seem unavailable for comment. LOL.
Steve
Thanks Steve. I just ask this question on another thread a few weeks ago. To me it seems they are getting fewer and fewer. When you hear a new case it is usually being told today by the witness yet it is an experience they had maybe 20 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 0:06:05 GMT -6
Thanks Steve. I just ask this question on another thread a few weeks ago. To me it seems they are getting fewer and fewer. When you hear a new case it is usually being told today by the witness yet it is an experience they had maybe 20 years ago. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Well, even on an anonymous board, I'm still much more comfortable talking about something that happened 20 yrs. ago vs. last week! And Lois, the videos and pictures you get should be proof to you that "they" are still around You, no matter how old you are ! They just have come to know you so well that otherwise they've gotten good at leaving no memory traces! Think of the parents now, whose child may be taken. Due to media, their worst fears have to be realized, when everything else is ruled out, and it continues to happen. They're going to want to be very private, but yet try to get help. I appreciate all Steve's insights on this . Myself, I sense I am under some sort of "protection". Doesn't mean "they" aren't around, and sometimes bother me. I think we would do well to pray for protection for our friends and loved-ones, and the world in general. Whomever "they" are, they are part of this Planet. Personally I don't like the trend that is rising again- to give them god-like status or creation rights over men and beast.
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Post by skywalker on Jul 30, 2013 7:18:13 GMT -6
There may be a few other reasons why abductions seem to be down, at least from MUFON's point of view. One is that they have a lot more competition now. Like Steve said many people report cases directly to other researchers or therapists they find on the internet rather than going to a large organization like MUFON. And while MUFON may have nation-wide recognition as a UFO investigating group they never have had that same reputation when it comes to abductions. In fact, at times they seem very antagonistic towards people with abduction experiences...like they think people who are experiencers are a bunch of nuts who should be relegated to the loony bin. That type of attitude isn't going to make people want to rush out and report their very personal experiences. I never reported mine other than here on the forums.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2013 10:40:20 GMT -6
Some people are very definitely researchers and in this day of internet information..it's very easy to do that. Not so when my abduction happened. Now days..if this happens to someone and they are (of course) confused and afraid..where do they turn? To that vast well of information AND most of it is pure BS. If it were me..I'd be reading and saying..oh wait...mine is nothing like that..so I'd better just keep it to myself because this guy is saying that aliens are cool and wonderful and love us and the ones in my experience were nasty and dispassionate and scared and hurt me. But of course..those guys are on the internet and everything you read there is true..right? Too much of the wrong information exists......and most people don't know the difference between hoax and real..half the time we don't. Someone's dream becomes reality via the internet and aliens look like choir boys. I would never report one now.
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Post by skywalker on Jul 31, 2013 18:56:10 GMT -6
I think most people probably don't report them. In fact, I bet most people don.t even know they were abducted. I didn't for over twenty years and I still wouldn't if I hadn't of met some of the people here who had the same types of symptoms and memories that I had. The little grey buggers do a good job of covering their tracks...but they aren't perfect.
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Post by lois on Jul 31, 2013 22:44:20 GMT -6
There may be a few other reasons why abductions seem to be down, at least from MUFON's point of view. One is that they have a lot more competition now. Like Steve said many people report cases directly to other researchers or therapists they find on the internet rather than going to a large organization like MUFON. And while MUFON may have nation-wide recognition as a UFO investigating group they never have had that same reputation when it comes to abductions. In fact, at times they seem very antagonistic towards people with abduction experiences...like they think people who are experiencers are a bunch of nuts who should be relegated to the loony bin. That type of attitude isn't going to make people want to rush out and report their very personal experiences. I never reported mine other than here on the forums. This means all they want is a photo a good one at that. How many do they need? If they are receiving alien photos we would never know.
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Post by lois on Jul 31, 2013 23:04:08 GMT -6
Thanks Steve. I just ask this question on another thread a few weeks ago. To me it seems they are getting fewer and fewer. When you hear a new case it is usually being told today by the witness yet it is an experience they had maybe 20 years ago. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Well, even on an anonymous board, I'm still much more comfortable talking about something that happened 20 yrs. ago vs. last week! And Lois, the videos and pictures you get should be proof to you that "they" are still around You, no matter how old you are ! They just have come to know you so well that otherwise they've gotten good at leaving no memory traces! Think of the parents now, whose child may be taken. Due to media, their worst fears have to be realized, when everything else is ruled out, and it continues to happen. They're going to want to be very private, but yet try to get help. I appreciate all Steve's insights on this . Myself, I sense I am under some sort of "protection". Doesn't mean "they" aren't around, and sometimes bother me. I think we would do well to pray for protection for our friends and loved-ones, and the world in general. Whomever "they" are, they are part of this Planet. Personally I don't like the trend that is rising again- to give them god-like status or creation rights over men and beast. Yes it would be a nice thought if they are not abducting people for some reason as of late. It could be as you stated. No one wants it to be true at first . They do deny at first. Hopefully it is not happening . I do not get good photos but I have seen many objects beyond belief still today. I never seem to have the camera on or it is inside my house at the time. After that rain cloud ufo last summer any doubts I had were washed away in about 30 seconds.. I went straight and cried on Marks shoulders for hours . He said . " Lois you will see it again I'm sure of that" It was the greatest sighting I ever had. People would of called it a fake right off.
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Dec 1, 2013 14:13:55 GMT -6
It seems that MUFON is now waging a war on Facebook. I'm still working on finding out the details of what is going on but it seems there were two different MUFON groups on facebook and neither of them had an official connection to MUFON. The MUFON hierarchy is in the process of shutting them down. A complaint has already been filed with facebook and one of the groups has already been forced to shut down and regroup under a different name. Not sure what is going on with the second one yet. Naturally this is causing some bad feelings among the people involved and will probably end up hurting MUFON more than helping it...as usual. I'll provide more info when I get it.
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Post by skywalker on Dec 1, 2013 22:09:19 GMT -6
Steve Hudgeons Jr, the Texas State Director for MUFON is the one leading the charge to shut the groups down. He is claiming they are both in violation of copyright laws since neither page had permission to use the MUFON name. I personally don't have anything against Steve because he seems like a decent guy and I can see his point of view. On the other hand I would have to ask if it is wise to risk alienating a bunch of people who obviously are interested in promoting MUFON. They were willing to take the time to create these pages and build membership in them. One group has over 700 members. Is MUFON really going to take a page out of the hands of somebody who obviously cares enough to be willing to invest huge amounts of time and energy into it and instead force everybody to join another group run by one of the MUFON establishment? Apparently they are...and tempers on both sides of the issue are already starting to flare a little.
I personally don't care one way or the other what happens in this situation. I'm just interested in seeing if MUFON handles this any better than they did when Clifford Clift was in charge and the Bod ruled with an iron fist.
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Post by Steve on May 23, 2014 16:19:50 GMT -6
This is an interview with a fromer MUFON investigator of 10 years with a background in law enforcement. He is blowing the whistle on how MUFON is currently operating and how he was treated when he reported his own UFO sighting.
steve
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Post by swamprat on May 23, 2014 20:20:40 GMT -6
Fascinating! Now I don't feel so bad that Mufon labeled my sighting report a hoax!
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 8:55:47 GMT -6
Steve Hudgeons Jr, the Texas State Director for MUFON is the one leading the charge to shut the groups down. He is claiming they are both in violation of copyright laws since neither page had permission to use the MUFON name. I personally don't have anything against Steve because he seems like a decent guy and I can see his point of view. On the other hand I would have to ask if it is wise to risk alienating a bunch of people who obviously are interested in promoting MUFON. They were willing to take the time to create these pages and build membership in them. One group has over 700 members. Is MUFON really going to take a page out of the hands of somebody who obviously cares enough to be willing to invest huge amounts of time and energy into it and instead force everybody to join another group run by one of the MUFON establishment? Apparently they are...and tempers on both sides of the issue are already starting to flare a little. I personally don't care one way or the other what happens in this situation. I'm just interested in seeing if MUFON handles this any better than they did when Clifford Clift was in charge and the Bod ruled with an iron fist. Why would someone want to "promote Mufon", yet be some entirely outside group? That almost sounds misleading; in a good way. Huh? (again, I'm not a facebk user).
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 8:58:16 GMT -6
Be more social = not drive people away? Back to the analysis of "hard cases" - that's OK. But all cases have information. I've said this recently here (I think) - there seems to be a fade off of reports of personal contact (still a lot of blurry pictures of things in the sky and Internet hoaxes). If reporting abductions filled a deep neurotic (and dishonest need) - why not have ongoing cases? I personally wonder if the Earth has recently been given full protection from interaction status - and that this is being enforced somehow by someones. MUFON said they don't want people to think of them as some secretive organization that hides things? Where could they ever have gotten that idea from? It's too bad David MacDonald is stepping down. I thought he did a pretty decent job. Don't know how this Jan Harzan guy is going to be. I can't remember if I've said any thing bad about him in the past. I'll have to go back and look. Concerns about secrecy (not to be confused with witness confidentiality), lack of (or total absence of) analysis of important UFO cases, and being more personable with the public? All things I was harping on here years ago!
Sad David MacDonald is stepping down too. As for Jan Harzan, his wife must have finally relented and let him become International Director. He has been bucking for the job for ages. The 2011 Irvine, California Mufon Symposium was there at that location 'politically' by Harzan and So. California Mufon.
Harzan is also the creator of the Mufon CMS (Case Management System) (the servers for his CMS are not in some remote corporate site, but in Harzans garage at his home!!!!). This and consistently a high or highest monthly scores for cases completed in that same CMS, which Harzan has been the primary engine to that success rate, all make Harzan the inevitable choice.
I predicted wrongly that Harzan would be the new International Director in 2011, but happily I was wrong, and MacDonald was elected by Mufon's secret Board of Directors. MacDonald was a step in the right direction. MacDonald injecting common sense, urging case analysis, so time is not wasted on redundant dead end caces (what to follow on, what to ignore), and most importantly - many promoted or demoted based on merit, not influence. MacDonald's tenure has been too short, and wish him well. At least he and I have our life time memberships and mufon Journal till death us do part. Yawn! (the journal).
My personal thoughts of Harzan was he was friendly, efficient, and pro-active over the phone working with Northern California Mufon cases when I was then Chief Investigator and second Assistant State Director in Northern California. But personally at Mufon Symposiums, he came across quite memorably to many to all present as being distant, and cold. He constantly had a lap top attached to his body, and was constantly away from most, typing away on his laptop, at meetings, in hotel lobby's, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Probably showered with it too....lol. So if Mufon wishes to put on a more open friendly face, Mr. Harzan will need grooming and warmth.
However, many of LA Mufon's guest speakers though have been mostly first rate with speakers discussing some remarkable cases.
It seems that everything commented on at the latest Mufon Symposium about serious changes needed - were the very same ones me and many many others expressed to our disfavor by the powers that be then. Did something soak in and surface? I wouldn't hold your breath just yet. They were not listening then, or were afraid to. I'm sure me and others have been forgotten. Maybe their present ranks where dwindling and some asked finally why they left? What a wonderful new smell Mufon may have discovered....lol. As Tommy Lee Jones (the federal Marshall) says to Harrison Ford (fugitive) in the fabulous film 'The Fugitive' (1993) "I don't care!"
Many old farts stuck in a 1969 mentality need to move on, they are protecting their egotistical castles to the harm of everyone else around them trying to push forward and make some kind of sense. These old immobile ego/castles are like boulders in a river stream, good only for creating turbulence and erosion.
Positive steps in the right direction have been placing David MacDonald as International Director, replacing that 'whats his name Christmas tree farmer'....and very happily Kathleen Marden (Betty Hill's niece) replacing the useless Lester Velez in 'Abduction' areas of Mufon research.
California has more than it's share of those that need to retire and let positive changes happen. Otherwise, change will then just have to occur inevitably one funeral art a time. These old farts are constantly at the same conventions talking to the same old crowds, about OTHER investigator's cases, having not done a case of their own in literally years!
Stepping back, the last year has made me see more clearly than ever, Mufon despite what it proclaims is far and away NOT the center of the everything 'UFO'.
Wish Mr Harzan best wishes, and his lap top too. I think Harzan IS a laptop. LOL.
Steve
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 9:04:15 GMT -6
the only thing I question about the above that I reposted, is Harzan is "the Creator of the CMS" system? Did he lose control over how it was handled shortly afterwards? This is implied, but the warning flags still came up for me. . . . Otherwise, I appreciate very much how the information (detailed above post) was posted. Thank You, Steve.
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Post by Steve on May 24, 2014 11:06:50 GMT -6
Many things in this You Tube account that could be commented on.
One is the total cold response from the assistant state director to supposedly one of their own people! No relationship professionally or personally here between the field investigator and the state directors, or even his immediate superior. The directors too lazy to even become acquainted with their own people? Incredible!
The State director, and the lower officers should have been familiar with their own people for god sake, its not like they have dozens like I did as a Assistant State Director (we are talking in this past Colorado situation less people in a state group than you can count on all your fingers). No desire to extend contact or at least find out why he could not attend meetings (work related - which they would know if they even bothered to learn about the people they were managing).
This thoughtful field investigator in the You tube video was caught is the turmoil when Mufon was under the mis-management under the stupidity of Clifford Clift. I'm sure also his valid questions about government monitoring (above and beyond monitoring) by the exclusive secret board of Mufon and the then MUFON Directors (Carrion and Clift) didn't lend well with Mufon higher ups, Chuck Reever and many others (Reever also on the Mufon B of D).
Robert Bigalow when he pulled his funding of Mufon rightly so due to Mufon board members and James Carrion Miss management - whether Carrion was involved directly or not...it was still on 'his watch' - caused a huge internal problem. Mufon got greedy suddenly flush with 'research money' - expecting in return by Bigalow - to have access to UFO cases directly. More, Bigalow through Star Team Investigations - be directly involved it was hoped in timely on the spot potentiality significant UFO investigations
After Mufon lost its Bigalow funding - Director Cliford Clift and others around him were desperate to keep Mufon financially afloat. Former Colorado state director mentioned in video - Leslie Varnicile - was a rare find in Mufon. Leslie's well run State chapter was very successful and due to its good money management - was comparatively flush with money then. Most Mufon State groups have terrible balances in their financial books. Most in the red, and many still are. My state (Northern California) always was. Knowing the people still running that chapter - sure it will never change till they replace the directors there.
The Colorado chapter had worked very hard among themselves without 'Mufon International' to achieve this. Leslie was fired for refusing to help financially (correctly so) to bail out Mufon headquarters incompetence and greed. State Chapters then were asked to contribute if there was any money floating to keep Mufon HQ even just floating day to day. Colorado was targeted by Clift because it was one of the rare few really well managed state chapters that might have any way to help. Mufon head quarters needed to save their skins fearing the likely would cause the collapse of Mufon, and Leslie stood in the way of Clifford Clift.
Clifford gutted the Colorado State organization for the chapter's bank account. If any organization wanted to bring down a UFO group, bad accounting is the most effective. You don't believe so, it is how the defunct NICAP (National Investigations Committee On Aerial Phenomena) was killed off. Why do you not think history could repeat? Clift was trying to save 'his' organization. But the situation seems all strangely another potential NICAP?
Many in Mufon hardly knew what was happening. The old Mufon website 'turned' and began voicing interdependently about many things. Clifford Clift shut that website down too. Many of us still remember?
This back drop has a lot to do with the displacement of this former Colorado investigator.
They should have had Leslie run Mufon perhaps, but was rewarded with what I just spelled out.
With this back ground painted, this field investigator got run over by his own people trying to save their own incompetent skins. A questionnaire from the Assistant state director? Not even a personal hello on the telephone? The underlying problem goes much more deep than a phone call, or lack of one.
This field investigator is also unique in being able to see the conclusions of his own personal report. Witnesses we were told in Mufon were never to see the official report - that was supposed to be kept from the witness. Having access to the vaunted very insecure CMS case management system Jan Harzan created. If the NSA was reading Mufon's case files - sure it would be assigned to one of their very junior hacker trainees! 99% of the cases contained will put you to sleep. They did for me. I do think a few of the Mufon board members - some recently retired - kept phone numbers to old buddies and agencies they worked for in case by happy accident Mufon actually ever did stumble upon anything. Many, Clifford Clift, James Carrion, and Tom Deuley were former Military intelligence people. Clift and Carrion even were in the same Army outfit in Europe. Carrion was head of Mufon during the Bigalow ms-accounting affair, and the author of his lecture as Mufon Head (a parting shot?) - that 'Roswell' never happened.
Mufon as I was personally told by Chief Mufon investigator Chuck Reever was "we are not interested in the truth, we are interested in good stories". What the helll did that mean?
Mufon as a volunteer investigations group if they follow such practices as illustrated in this You Tube video - have no credibility or competence to be anything to do around UFO's. I know some state chapters are better than others than the one illustrated in the video. I personally think Mufon wants to lift itself out of its woes by sleeping with Hollywood. Mufon has nothing to sell but its cases and 'selling out' the confidentiality of the witnesses - whether they signed wavers to publicize or not.
I would not file a report with Mufon, and certainly never refer an alleged abductee to Mufon. God help them.
Steve
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Post by swamprat on May 24, 2014 12:05:25 GMT -6
Chief Mufon investigator Chuck Reever: “We are not interested in the truth, we are interested in good stories." That just about says it all! I wonder how Harzan would respond to that comment?
We are fortunate now to have a good state team in Florida. The State Director and Assistant State Director are quite gregarious. They get to know the Investigators and attend a lot of meetings across the state.
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Post by Steve on May 24, 2014 12:19:32 GMT -6
Hi Swamp,
In contrast to stories like the Coloradio one above among others....I have heard from many sources good things about the Florida Mufon state chapters.
Steve
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Post by skywalker on May 24, 2014 17:22:47 GMT -6
Why would someone want to "promote Mufon", yet be some entirely outside group? That almost sounds misleading; in a good way. Huh? (again, I'm not a facebk user). It has to do with interest in the UFO phenomenon and naiveté about how MUFON works. People become interested in UFOs then find out that MUFON is a "volunteer" organization so they want to help. They take the initiative to start groups on Facebook or wherever thinking that they can do MUFON a favor and promote the organization and hopefully get more people interested in investigating UFOs but they don't realize that MUFON is a huge bureaucracy lead by people who want total control over everything and jealously guard whatever power they happen to have. The MUFON BoD wants to put their official stamp of approval on everything that happens or it isn't going to happen. As an example, when the third and final version of the MUFON forum was being overrun by spammers and trolls and was collapsing due to lack of time and interest by the administrators there were several forum members who offered to help. There were people who offered to become moderators and clean up the forum and they were willing to invest a lot of their time into trying to make the forum a better place. Some of those people were MUFON members. The MUFON BoD Refused the offer because as they said, "Only high-ranking MUFON officials are allowed to be moderators." It was the total lack of interest by those same high-ranking officials that was causing the problem in the first place. So rather than allowing "outsiders" to get involved and help make the forum a successful place the BoD instead shut the whole thing down permanently simply because to allow the "outsiders" to help they might have lost a little bit of control over the situation. That's just the way bureaucrats are.
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Post by skywalker on Jun 24, 2014 20:18:28 GMT -6
My MUFON membership will expire very soon (or already has, I'm not sure which since I haven't really been paying attention ) and I am debating on whether or not I should renew it. I have been for the past several years mainly because as the administrator of a UFO/paranormal forum and somebody who sometimes investigates UFOs I think it is good to stay connected to various paranormal groups so I can keep up on what's happening and maintain connections with people who have inside information on things that we discuss here. I'm kind of wondering if it's worth the money to keep doing it though. Lately I haven't really seen any benefit to being a member of MUFON. Really all I am getting is a subscription to a cheap little black and white monthly journal. Remember that Clifford Clift himself even referred to the members as subscribers rather than members. What more benefit is there to being a member? For fifty dollars I could get a "subscription" to one of any number of UFO magazines that have more pages, more info and are in COLOR...and I would probably still have enough money left over to get a pizza and a twelve pack. Is it really worth it to be a MUFON member? I'm interested in hearing any opinions y'all might have, especially from those of you who still are members with MUFON. I haven't made my decision yet.
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Post by swamprat on Jun 25, 2014 9:20:16 GMT -6
I agree with your observations. The main reasons I remain a member are:
1. It keeps the chain of communication open. 2. My state of Florida has a very active Mufon State organization. 3. When you are old enough to get the senior discount, it's not quite as expensive!
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Post by skywalker on Jun 26, 2014 18:42:19 GMT -6
Yes, Florida does have a good chapter. Texas is pretty good also. I suppose it wouldn't kill me to throw another $50.00 down MUFON's toilet. Maybe some day they might actually do something useful. Alright, I'll sign back up for another year.
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