sunbow
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Seeing, Dreaming, and Loving...
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Post by sunbow on Apr 27, 2013 15:18:12 GMT -6
I am not directly affiliated with any Native American tribe. I grew up on Castaneda, which led me to read much from all indigenous American culture as I could find. I enjoy the low key pow-wows (as opposed to the large ones with dance prize money). I have learned a lot from various native traditions.
The book, like many North American tales, seems appropriate for children (as well as adults0, but is neither deep, nor scholarly. It is a story book. The author collected tales and embellished them for the book. I cite it not so much as a recommended read, but more to point out, as Jo said, the tales of wee people span all cultures and predate modern communication spreading them. That means that there is either an archetypical image in our multicultural subconscious or there really are beings of this stature which have been reported. Tales grow with re-telling, so time and data will tell.
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Post by auntym on Apr 27, 2013 15:53:52 GMT -6
I agree with sunbow. Honestly, as an anthropologist who has worked with primates a lot I am feeling like this looks like a pygmy marmoset skeleton that has been altered and then mummified. I am keeping an open mind, but that sure is what it looks like. You guys can look at pictures of pygmy marmosets and their skeletons on google and tell me what you think... I hope I'm wrong, though.LOL :-) search.aol.com/aol/search?enabled_terms=&s_it=comsearch51&q=pygmy+marmoset+skeleton pygmy marmoset skeleton ... ... 6 in. possible alieni don't see any similarities between these to beings...
one looks like a small monkey, the other looks more human...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 19:56:07 GMT -6
Well she did say a marmoset skeleton that had been altered. The scientists did say human that allegedly examined it..so lets see them explain that one LOL
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on Apr 27, 2013 20:09:30 GMT -6
Agreed, big difference, but the size is similar and many possibilities exist. An intentionally altered marmoset or a related branch of evolution. Then there is the planetary tales of little people. I do not know.
Perhaps I'll see the movie, but I will have doubts unless the entire DNA sequencing is put in a public forum for all scientists to look at and debate. I doubt a movie could do that and I have yet to see that website. I cannot read DNA, but having someone say they analyzed it and this is there opinion means nothing. Publish all the sequences. Publish all the xrays and scans....
If it is truly alien, the data will eventually win.
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Post by skywalker on Apr 27, 2013 20:41:24 GMT -6
Supposedly Greer will be presenting the DNA analysis at the MUFON symposium in Nevada in August. (I think it's in August ) I imagine a book will be written about it sooner or later also. I still haven't had time to watch the movie yet either but I will one of these years.
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Post by dawnoftime on Apr 28, 2013 9:20:54 GMT -6
I agree with sunbow. Honestly, as an anthropologist who has worked with primates a lot I am feeling like this looks like a pygmy marmoset skeleton that has been altered and then mummified. I am keeping an open mind, but that sure is what it looks like. You guys can look at pictures of pygmy marmosets and their skeletons on google and tell me what you think... I hope I'm wrong, though.LOL :-) search.aol.com/aol/search?enabled_terms=&s_it=comsearch51&q=pygmy+marmoset+skeleton pygmy marmoset skeleton ... ... 6 in. possible alieni don't see any similarities between these to beings...
one looks like a small monkey, the other looks more human...Yes, you are right. I was thinking that someone may have modified the skeletal structure first, then mummified the remains. For example, extracting several vertebrae and using certain processes to alter the shape of the skull, removing the tail, etc. One reason I was pondering this is that I had just been reading about the "Fiji Mermaid" that was exhibeted for years by P.T. Barnum, fascinating and stumping people for years until it was shown that it was the skinned, top half of a monkey sewn onto the hind part of a fish. This seems more sophisticated than that, and as I have read I've seen that there is DNA evidence that it is not a monkey, so I am sure I could be wrong. As I said, I hope I'm wrong! ;D Very interesting story and my mind remains wide open!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 10:07:42 GMT -6
If, as they say the DNA is human (and I really want to see that) then someone may have found evidence of little people. With so many legends and tales from our own world..why is it necessary for people to look toward 'aliens' for explanations? I don't get it..
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Post by skywalker on Apr 28, 2013 12:07:24 GMT -6
That's exactly what I have been saying, Jo. I think this little dude is from a race of little "humans" that branched off on their own...kind of like the Pygmies did. We know there are genetic anomalies that cause people to sometimes be born as midgets or dwarfs and some of them have been tiny. According to the Guinness Book of World Records the shortest documented adult human was only 21 inches tall. If she and another tiny human were to have tiny children they might end up being about the size of this little 6 inch dude.
If a group of these tiny humans had decided to go off and live on their own over the centuries they may have evolved slightly differently from the rest of the human population and ended up as a separate species that is closely related to humans but still slightly different. Eventually they may have spread out to different parts of the world...always hiding from the larger population who probably would have been extremely dangerous since humans have a tendency t kill everything they come in contact with...especially things that are smaller, weaker and unusual. I think that is where all of the myths and legends about "little people" or fairies come from.
I don't think this thing is alien but I don't think it is entirely identical to normal humans either.
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Post by plutronus on Apr 28, 2013 16:01:31 GMT -6
I've been following all of the posts and visiting all the cited URLs folks kindly offer us. <sigh>I don't generally waste too much time on stuff such as this...I've seen so many similar type oddities over the years, its just one more in a long lineup. However, via an active RV group in which I'm a member, a link re; Greer's(/Sirius film martketing) 'investigation' was posted today, here's another vantage about the poor little guy...
www.isciencetimes.com/articles/5006/20130424/6-inch-alien-discovered-chile-dna-analysis.htm
Perhaps I should muster up one of in-my-youth adventures, I had a summer job as a 'wrencher' in a carny for three years. I saw things I would not believe, had I not seen them walking around with my own eyes. Lots of oddities out there.
Hopefully somebody gave that little guy love, he sure did need it, or so it seems to me...
plutronus
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Post by skywalker on Apr 28, 2013 17:33:14 GMT -6
Somebody took the time to wrap his dead body up and bury him near a church. I'm sure they wouldn't have done that if they didn't care.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 23:23:00 GMT -6
Yep
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 16:43:49 GMT -6
So according to DNA it definitely IS human and 6-8 years old..the rest..well it's a little folk mystery ..sort of as we've been discussing although it is thought to be deformed. The remains also showed skull deformities and mild underdevelopment of the mid-face and jaw, the researchers found. The skull also showed signs of turricephaly, or high-head syndrome, a birth defect in which the top of the skull is cone-shaped. news.yahoo.com/alien-looking-skeleton-poses-medical-mystery-201222636.html
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Post by dawnoftime on May 1, 2013 10:02:03 GMT -6
So according to DNA it definitely IS human and 6-8 years old..the rest..well it's a little folk mystery ..sort of as we've been discussing although it is thought to be deformed. The remains also showed skull deformities and mild underdevelopment of the mid-face and jaw, the researchers found. The skull also showed signs of turricephaly, or high-head syndrome, a birth defect in which the top of the skull is cone-shaped. news.yahoo.com/alien-looking-skeleton-poses-medical-mystery-201222636.htmlVery interesting. I wonder if births such as these could have been partially responsible for the little people legends -- especially the changeling parts. Of course it could be that they really existed -- I drift toward agreeing with those who say that if they existed they have since departed (cue Lord of the Rings credits music here).
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Post by auntym on May 1, 2013 14:13:04 GMT -6
www.opposingviews.com/i/society/science/tiny-alien-skeleton-chile-still-medical-mysteryTiny 'Alien' Skeleton From Chile Still A Medical MysteryBy Emily Smith May 01, 2013 A tiny skeleton with an alien-like cone head and unusual amount of ribs discovered ten years ago has inspired speculation again following the release of Sirius, a UFO conspiracy documentary film. The film follows Dr. Stephen Greer, an osteopath and ufologist, to Chile where he performed an exam on the six-inch mummified body, collecting DNA samples. Greer’s analysis concluded that the body was human, not alien, and despite the size had lived to be six or seven years old. The high amount of calcium in its bones indicated that the skeleton had not been a fetus. The skeleton was later transferred to Stanford, where professor of microbiology and immunology Garry Nolan probed the bones. His findings were also featured in Sirius "I've only scratched the surface in the analysis.” He said, “But there is nothing that jumps out so far as to scream 'nonhuman.'" While nine percent of the genes could not be referenced to human genomes, the mismatch could be attributed to various factors like degradation, artifacts from lab preparation of the specimen or insufficient data. Nolan and his team analyzed the skeleton with high-resolution photography, x-rays, and computed tomography scans. The goal was to discover some mutation that could lead to an irregular amount of ribs (10 instead of 12) and high-head syndrome. Nolan wrote that his research did not point to dwarfism as a cause for the disfigurements at this stage of the analysis. "It's an interesting medical mystery of an unfortunate human with a series of birth defects that currently the genetics of which are not obvious," Nolan wrote. Sources: Beta News, The Inquisiter MORE: www.opposingviews.com/i/society/science/tiny-alien-skeleton-chile-still-medical-mystery
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Post by auntym on May 1, 2013 14:20:06 GMT -6
IDK...with all the disinformation the government forces on to the public ... i still believe this being is a humanoid alien... in the beginning they were saying this being was not of this earth... now they are claiming he's human... something smells here...
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Post by swamprat on May 1, 2013 15:28:03 GMT -6
3 feet, I could believe human; 2 feet even. But 6 inches?! 6 to 8 years old?! Human??! Prove it!
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Post by auntym on May 1, 2013 19:07:27 GMT -6
3 feet, I could believe human; 2 feet even. But 6 inches?! 6 to 8 years old?! Human??! Prove it! thats what i say too...
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Post by swamprat on May 1, 2013 19:44:02 GMT -6
This is a rehash of what's already been said. It is significant primarily because it was a featured article in a respected scientific publication. Alien-Looking Skeleton Poses Medical MysteryJeanna Bryner, LiveScience Managing Editor Date: 30 April 2013 A 6-inch-long (15 centimeters) skeleton was found in the Atacama Desert in Chile. The skeleton showed several anomalies, including its alienlike skull, teensy body and the fact that it had just 10 ribs rather than the 12 that healthy humans normally have. CREDIT: SiriusA teensy skeleton with a squashed alienlike head may have earthly origins, but the remains, found in the Atacama Desert a decade ago, do make for quite a medical mystery. Apparently when the mummified specimen was discovered, some had suggested the possibility it was an alien that had somehow landed on Earth, though the researchers involved never suggested this otherworldly origin. Now, DNA and other tests suggest the individual was a human and was 6 to 8 years of age when he or she died. Even so, the remains were just 6 inches (15 centimeters) long. "While the jury is out regarding the mutations that cause the deformity, and there is a real discrepancy in how we account for the apparent age of the bones … every nucleotide I've been able to look at is human," researcher Garry Nolan, professor of microbiology and immunology at Stanford School of Medicine, told LiveScience. "I've only scratched the surface in the analysis. But there is nothing that jumps out so far as to scream 'nonhuman.'" Analyzing the tiny humanNolan and his colleagues analyzed the specimen in the fall of 2012 with high-resolution photography, X-rays and computed tomography scans, as well as DNA sequencing. The researchers wanted to find out whether some rare disorder could explain the anomalous skeleton — for instance it had just 10 ribs as opposed to 12 in a healthy human — the age the organism died, as its size suggested a preterm fetus, stillborn or a deformed child, and whether it was human or perhaps a South American nonhuman primate. The remains also showed skull deformities and mild underdevelopment of the mid-face and jaw, the researchers found. The skull also showed signs of turricephaly, or high-head syndrome, a birth defect in which the top of the skull is cone-shaped. The genome sequencing suggested the creature was human, though 9 percent of the genes didn't match up with the reference human genome; the mismatches may be due to various factors, including degradation, artifacts from lab preparation of the specimen or insufficient data. The team also looked at mitochondrial DNA, or the DNA inside the cells' energy-making structures that gets passed down from mothers to offspring. The so-called allele frequency of the mitochondrial DNA suggested the individual came from the Atacama, particularly from the B2 haplotype group. A haplotype is a long segment of ancestral DNA that stays the same over several generations and can pinpoint a group who share a common ancestor way back in time. In this case the B2 haplotype is found on the west coast of South America. The data from the mitochondrial DNA alleles point toward "the mother being an indigenous woman from the Chilean area of South America," Nolan wrote in an email. More mysteryThe jury is still out on the mutations that caused the deformities, and the researchers aren't certain how old the bones are, though they estimate the individual died at least a few decades ago. In addition, they didn't find any of the mutations commonly associated with primordial dwarfism or other forms of dwarfism. If there is a genetic basis for the deformities, it is "not apparent at this level of resolution and at this stage of the analysis," Nolan wrote in a summary of his work. In addition, even if they found those mutations, they may not explain the anomalies seen in the skeleton. "There is no known form of dwarfism that accounts for all of the anomalies seen in this specimen," Dr. Ralph Lachman, professor emeritus, UCLA School of Medicine, and clinical professor at Stanford University, wrote in a report to Nolan. "It's an interesting medical mystery of an unfortunate human with a series of birth defects that currently the genetics of which are not obvious," Nolan wrote of the Atacama skeleton. www.livescience.com/29176-alien-looking-skeleton-poses-medical-mystery.html
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Post by skywalker on May 1, 2013 20:22:00 GMT -6
I still think it is one of the "little people" who populate the hidden parts of our planet and give rise to all the stories of fairies and nymphs and whatevers. They said the little dude was estimated to be about a hundred years old. There could have still been some of them alive back then. Maybe there still are some now even. It would be a lot easier for a race of six-inch people to hide than it would be for an eight-foot ape like Bigfoot but we they have managed to evade us so far also.
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Post by auntym on May 3, 2013 13:47:50 GMT -6
'Sirius' UFO Director Amardeep Kaleka Interview Published on May 2, 2013 We caught up with the Sirius UFO documentary director, Amardeep Kaleka. Amardeep is a regional Emmy award winning director. We talked with him about how he got involved with the Sirius project, a UFO sighting he had while filming, and his perception of UFO research. He also shared with us his thoughts on the conspiracy theories around the recent tragic death of his father. Read more at: www.openminds.tv
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 0:47:14 GMT -6
I still think it is one of the "little people" who populate the hidden parts of our planet and give rise to all the stories of fairies and nymphs and whatevers. They said the little dude was estimated to be about a hundred years old. There could have still been some of them alive back then. Maybe there still are some now even. It would be a lot easier for a race of six-inch people to hide than it would be for an eight-foot ape like Bigfoot but we they have managed to evade us so far also. ~nods~
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Post by auntym on May 8, 2013 11:25:02 GMT -6
www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/bizarre-skeleton-leaves-ufo-hunters-and-scientists-baffled-20130508-2j7a6.htmlBizarre skeleton leaves UFO hunters and scientists baffledRichard Stone May 8, 2013 The miniature skeleton has 10 ribs instead of the usual 12. Alien? Subhuman primate? Deformed child? Mummified foetus? The internet is buzzing over the nature of "Ata", a bizarre 12-centimetre-long skeleton featured in a new documentary on UFOs. A Stanford University scientist who boldly entered the fray has now put to rest doubts about what species Ata belongs to. But the mystery is not over. The story began 10 years ago, when the diminutive remains were reportedly found in a pouch in a ghost town in the Atacama Desert of Chile. Ata ended up in a private collection in Barcelona; producers of the film Sirius latched onto the bizarre mummy as evidence of alien life. Wow, this is like nothing I've ever seen before Last year, immunologist Garry Nolan, director of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute's Proteomics Centre for Systems Immunology at Stanford in California, heard about Ata from a friend and contacted the filmmakers, offering to give them a scientific readout on the specimen. They asked him to give it a shot. Among the apparent abnormalities, Ata sports 10 ribs instead of the usual 12 and a severely misshapen skull. "I asked our neonatal care unit how you would go about analysing it. Had they seen this kind of syndrome before?" Nolan says. He was directed to paediatric radiologist Ralph Lachman, co-director of the International Skeletal Dysplasia Registry at Cedars-Sinai Medical Centre in Los Angeles. "He literally wrote the book on paediatric bone disorders," Nolan says. Lachman was blown away, Nolan recalls: "He said, 'Wow, this is like nothing I've ever seen before.' " Advertisement To study the specimen, Nolan sought clues in Ata's genome. He initially presumed the specimen was tens or hundreds of thousands of years old - the Atacama Desert may be the driest spot on the planet, so Ata could have been preserved for aeons. He consulted experts who had extracted DNA from bones of the Denisovans, an Asian relative of European Stone Age Neandertals. It turned out that their protocols weren't necessary. "The DNA was modern, abundant, and high quality," he says, indicating that the specimen is probably a few decades old. WATCH VIDEO & CONTINUE READING: www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/bizarre-skeleton-leaves-ufo-hunters-and-scientists-baffled-20130508-2j7a6.html
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 12:23:47 GMT -6
Isn't it already established that it's human dna? All of the rest is speculation until forensic anthropologists have a go at defining the area it came from and everything the little body can tell them.
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Post by skywalker on May 8, 2013 20:00:33 GMT -6
Not exactly. The DNA was similar enough to human that the computer automatically classified it as human which is what it is programmed to do if there are enough similarities. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is homo sapiens. It might be a new species of human that has not yet been categorized and put into the computer. Or it could be a normal human with some really weird genetic anomalies. Further tests would need to be done to conclusively know one way or another.
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Post by bewildered on May 8, 2013 20:06:29 GMT -6
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Post by skywalker on May 8, 2013 20:34:07 GMT -6
It's good that other scientists are getting involved with this. The more intelligent and educated people we have looking at it the sooner the riddle of what exactly it is and why it turned out the way it did will be solved. I think that even if it is totally human it is still an amazing discovery.
I wonder if the other tiny specimens that supposedly were discovered in Russia are the same as this one, with all of the unique physical traits that this one has, like the abnormal number of ribs? Has anybody been able to find any detailed information on the Russian bodies?
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Post by auntym on May 8, 2013 22:30:40 GMT -6
Isn't it already established that it's human dna? All of the rest is speculation until forensic anthropologists have a go at defining the area it came from and everything the little body can tell them. IDK... the very deepest parts of me isn't buying that this 6 inch being is human... i still think this is government disinformation...
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 0:50:57 GMT -6
I think it's more possible that it represents some small humanoid species..and our world abounds with those stories. I find it a lot harder to see wee tiny aliens zipping around in wee tiny ships and I think it's every bit a wonderful and exciting mystery to think of it as a part of OUR world...of our genetics. It could end up being some foundation to prove the stories of elves or other little beings. Selfishly I love to think this one belongs to us Why..I'm only 5'2" that could be an ancestor of mine ;D
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CitizenK
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Post by CitizenK on May 9, 2013 0:56:33 GMT -6
;D ;D ;D mine and yours both Jo! I would like to think it's 'one of ours' too. And I do think there has to be more than mere lore involved in all the tales from across the world of wee lil people...like I said before, "I do , I do , I do believe in faeries!" And THIS could be the hard evidence I've been waiting for! (that's my story and I'm sticking to it! )
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CitizenK
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I'm Back Guys!!! I've missed you so much!!!
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Post by CitizenK on May 9, 2013 1:11:59 GMT -6
3 feet, I could believe human; 2 feet even. But 6 inches?! 6 to 8 years old?! Human??! Prove it! It's already been established as "proof" Swampy, read the article where the Harvard scientist states it as fact.
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