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Post by bewildered on May 15, 2013 9:15:03 GMT -6
@cliff: I tend to favor the interdimensional hypothesis of Vallee and Hynek, as collaborated by John Keel. My experiences seem more in line with something that seems to transcend space-time as understood in the Standard Model of Physics. I should probably point out that we only understand a tiny fraction of the nature of reality, and we are constantly encountering phenomena that seem to violate the "rules" as we know them. For example, we discover exoplanets orbiting stars that "shouldn't exist." There's no arguing that they do indeed exist, so it's patently obvious that we need to learn more so we can adjust our scientific understanding of reality.
I feel that all of the phenomena that we experience is quite beyond the ability of anyone to either prove or disprove primarily because we are not dealing with discrete events or objects that actually originate in the matter universe as we know it. Yes, that does indeed strain my own skepticism, because I am not comfortable with anything that cannot be quantified as either true or false. If I didn't have my own share of very strange experiences, I wouldn't likely believe any of it.
I'm a "believer," if you will, but that's because some of my experiences have withstood the most exhaustive scrutiny I could bring to bear against it. As I've written elsewhere, I'm very rational (I'm a scientist-in-training) and even depressingly empirical, and I admire the scientific method. I don't believe in something when no evidence exists to support it...and yet here I am, and I'll tell you that I am indeed convinced that something very strange is afoot. I have had experiences with what I can only call "ultradimensionals." Whoever or whatever they are, they can apparently manipulate time and even space, at least from my perspective. I don't know why they do it, or how they do it.
Are they some kind of advanced race? Possibly. I almost suspect that they are "us" on some other level of reality...how's that for weird?
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2013 9:58:47 GMT -6
Valee was one of the first I could ever agree with when I started having flashbacks and came to terms with what had happened in my life. And like Bewildered I tried to find any other possible explanation. Still it never made any sense to me that beings would travel billions of light years to planet earth to experiment on the locals. It takes a LOT to travel in space. Reading Valee's hypothesis..made so much sense. Inter-dimensional beings. Then I read up on string theory and anything else that seemed a bit closer to home. If we exist in line with many other realities..perhaps there are 'weak' points between that can serve as doorways. Letting some beings slip through or perhaps they've learned how to manipulate those to come and go at will. Sort of like Halloween..being the time when the veil is thin between worlds. That, to me, had so many directions to go in...and at the same time I thought maybe other 'things' could slip through..jersey devils or big feet....maybe would also clarify the places like the Bermuda triangle. Maybe the concept is more 'romantic or star trekish' for space travel. Federations..which we would be invited to join in...just never made any sense to me.
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Post by bewildered on May 15, 2013 10:58:11 GMT -6
Valee was one of the first I could ever agree with when I started having flashbacks and came to terms with what had happened in my life. And like Bewildered I tried to find any other possible explanation. Still it never made any sense to me that beings would travel billions of light years to planet earth to experiment on the locals. It takes a LOT to travel in space. Reading Valee's hypothesis..made so much sense. Inter-dimensional beings. Then I read up on string theory and anything else that seemed a bit closer to home. If we exist in line with many other realities..perhaps there are 'weak' points between that can serve as doorways. Letting some beings slip through or perhaps they've learned how to manipulate those to come and go at will. Sort of like Halloween..being the time when the veil is thin between worlds. That, to me, had so many directions to go in...and at the same time I thought maybe other 'things' could slip through..jersey devils or big feet....maybe would also clarify the places like the Bermuda triangle. Maybe the concept is more 'romantic or star trekish' for space travel. Federations..which we would be invited to join in...just never made any sense to me. As usual, I find myself agreeing with jo. Funny, that. Quite right...why would an intelligent species travel mind-blowing astronomical units just to say "boo!"? Why would they play hide and seek? What's the point? It violates every logical principle, from the conservation of energy to what a hypothetical advanced species would do with their time. I highly doubt they would expend the resources necessary to travel interstellar distances just to conduct anal probes on humans. Everything changes, however, when viewed from a different perspective of space-time. What if they (or whatever this is) were always "here?" What if the matter universe that we perceive with our senses is really just an elaboration illusion of our consciousness? Science supports the notion that the only "reality," if there could be such a thing, is energy. We already know that what we perceive as "matter" is mostly empty space. Our senses "fill in the blanks," in other words. It all begins to make a terrible kind of sense.
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Post by lois on May 15, 2013 21:42:15 GMT -6
@cliff: I tend to favor the interdimensional hypothesis of Vallee and Hynek, as collaborated by John Keel. My experiences seem more in line with something that seems to transcend space-time as understood in the Standard Model of Physics. I should probably point out that we only understand a tiny fraction of the nature of reality, and we are constantly encountering phenomena that seem to violate the "rules" as we know them. For example, we discover exoplanets orbiting stars that "shouldn't exist." There's no arguing that they do indeed exist, so it's patently obvious that we need to learn more so we can adjust our scientific understanding of reality. I feel that all of the phenomena that we experience is quite beyond the ability of anyone to either prove or disprove primarily because we are not dealing with discrete events or objects that actually originate in the matter universe as we know it. Yes, that does indeed strain my own skepticism, because I am not comfortable with anything that cannot be quantified as either true or false. If I didn't have my own share of very strange experiences, I wouldn't likely believe any of it. I'm a "believer," if you will, but that's because some of my experiences have withstood the most exhaustive scrutiny I could bring to bear against it. As I've written elsewhere, I'm very rational (I'm a scientist-in-training) and even depressingly empirical, and I admire the scientific method. I don't believe in something when no evidence exists to support it...and yet here I am, and I'll tell you that I am indeed convinced that something very strange is afoot. I have had experiences with what I can only call "ultradimensionals." Whoever or whatever they are, they can apparently manipulate time and even space, at least from my perspective. I don't know why they do it, or how they do it. Are they some kind of advanced race? Possibly. I almost suspect that they are "us" on some other level of reality...how's that for weird? That is not weird at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 9:26:20 GMT -6
Welcome to the Matrix. Weird is only what you don't know and understand.
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Post by anthony01 on May 16, 2013 11:25:55 GMT -6
I also think it unlikely that a civilization far away from us would bother expend the energy (and time!) to visit us, unless they knew of a short-cut. It would be far easier to communicate through radio waves, which is what the current premise that SETI uses when searching for intelligent life beyond the Earth. Given the tales of aliens that are here, it makes sense to me that they would be inter-dimensional (or from another "layer", as I like to think of them). They are probably even quite close. I believe there are physical laws to explain travel between dimensions, only that we haven't a clue as to how they work at the current time. I like what Jokelly said about Halloween, that perhaps there are times (or points) in space-time that are weaker between the dimensions, allowing travel. Cliff, thanks for the link! When I get a moment I'll check it out
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Post by bewildered on May 16, 2013 11:57:12 GMT -6
I also think it unlikely that a civilization far away from us would bother expend the energy (and time!) to visit us, unless they knew of a short-cut. It would be far easier to communicate through radio waves, which is what the current premise that SETI uses when searching for intelligent life beyond the Earth. Given the tales of aliens that are here, it makes sense to me that they would be inter-dimensional (or from another "layer", as I like to think of them). They are probably even quite close. I believe there are physical laws to explain travel between dimensions, only that we haven't a clue as to how they work at the current time. I like what Jokelly said about Halloween, that perhaps there are times (or points) in space-time that are weaker between the dimensions, allowing travel. Cliff, thanks for the link! When I get a moment I'll check it out I agree with your perspective, Anthony. I don't for a moment consider that existence can be meaningfully "separated" into discrete layers: what we see, hear, feel, etc., is a unified whole. There is an explanation for everything, regardless of our positional understanding at any given time. The "gods" that once pulled the Sun or the Moon across the sky were later understood to be something else entirely. Fire isn't "magic," it's an attribute of a complex series of interactions. What we see as "fire" is only one facet of something far more diverse in expression. We can see some of that "greater" reality when we use different imaging techniques to view the radiant phenomenon of fire. Something is "alien" to us only because it is unknown, or not understood.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 18:12:26 GMT -6
I also think it unlikely that a civilization far away from us would bother expend the energy (and time!) It would be far easier to communicate through radio waves, which is what the current premise that SETI uses when searching for intelligent life beyond the Earth. I have suspected that radio waves is what may have initially attracted them to come here to begin with, at least the ones who have been visiting within the past century. Still, radio waves travel at the same velocity as light so there lies the problem with time between two points. If we send one to alpha Centauri (which is an unlikely candidate for life) , it takes about 4 1/2 years to get there just one way. As you are probably aware, there have been a couple of times that we received signals that were different (suspected by some to be e.t.) from others within the em spectrum, the WOW ! signal (6EQUJ5 - SETI-Big Ear) being one. I wonder if some of our local group of surrounding cousins nearby laugh at "the honeymooners" or "I love Lucy"? Not knowing it is for purposes of comedy, I wonder even more what they think of us as a specie when watching some of those shows they are just now hearing and watching due to the distance. "War Of The World's". I'm curious if they take it literally like some of our people here did ?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 11:45:02 GMT -6
@cliff: I tend to favor the interdimensional hypothesis of Vallee and Hynek, as collaborated by John Keel. My experiences seem more in line with something that seems to transcend space-time as understood in the Standard Model of Physics. I should probably point out that we only understand a tiny fraction of the nature of reality, and we are constantly encountering phenomena that seem to violate the "rules" as we know them. For example, we discover exoplanets orbiting stars that "shouldn't exist." There's no arguing that they do indeed exist, so it's patently obvious that we need to learn more so we can adjust our scientific understanding of reality. I feel that all of the phenomena that we experience is quite beyond the ability of anyone to either prove or disprove primarily because we are not dealing with discrete events or objects that actually originate in the matter universe as we know it. Yes, that does indeed strain my own skepticism, because I am not comfortable with anything that cannot be quantified as either true or false. If I didn't have my own share of very strange experiences, I wouldn't likely believe any of it. I'm a "believer," if you will, but that's because some of my experiences have withstood the most exhaustive scrutiny I could bring to bear against it. As I've written elsewhere, I'm very rational (I'm a scientist-in-training) and even depressingly empirical, and I admire the scientific method. I don't believe in something when no evidence exists to support it...and yet here I am, and I'll tell you that I am indeed convinced that something very strange is afoot. I have had experiences with what I can only call "ultradimensionals." Whoever or whatever they are, they can apparently manipulate time and even space, at least from my perspective. I don't know why they do it, or how they do it. Are they some kind of advanced race? Possibly. I almost suspect that they are "us" on some other level of reality...how's that for weird? I had written a long reply Bewildered but a glitch booted me off and well,,,, it got lost. I'll try to redo it again soon.
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Post by bewildered on May 17, 2013 16:42:40 GMT -6
Ugh...I know that feels, Cliff. I had that happen to me the other day. I had spent a decent amount of time whipping a nice reply to someone, clicked on the "post reply" radio button and *slap!* was treated to a 404 page error. AAaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggh! I enjoy conjecture like this. I think the evolution of our species, not just our activity in the industrial age, interests whatever is going on in this department. Whatever this is, it's "been" with us since we started making tools and creating art. I've gained this impression from my own experiences: our ability to create, to destroy, to imagine, to dream, and explore interests these beings. I've also encountered a curious "wall of silence" that leads me to suspect that these beings are not aliens or even extraterrestrials. They aren't gods or angels, either, even though some people might be prone to perceiving them that way. There are "others" involved in the mix, though. They aren't interested in us as living, growing creatures. I think they regard us as prey instead.
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Post by plutronus on May 17, 2013 20:11:35 GMT -6
Ugh...I know that feels, Cliff. I had that happen to me the other day. I had spent a decent amount of time whipping a nice reply to someone, clicked on the "post reply" radio button and *slap!* was treated to a 404 page error. AAaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggh! I enjoy conjecture like this. I think the evolution of our species, not just our activity in the industrial age, interests whatever is going on in this department. Whatever this is, it's "been" with us since we started making tools and creating art. I've gained this impression from my own experiences: our ability to create, to destroy, to imagine, to dream, and explore interests these beings. I've also encountered a curious "wall of silence" that leads me to suspect that these beings are not aliens or even extraterrestrials. They aren't gods or angels, either, even though some people might be prone to perceiving them that way. There are "others" involved in the mix, though. They aren't interested in us as living, growing creatures. I think they regard us as prey instead. Hi,
Pardon the butt-in,
<<< I had spent a decent amount of time whipping a nice reply to someone, clicked on the "post reply" radio button and *slap!* was treated to a '404' page error.
AAaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggh!
>>>
When I'm posting something that's important and that I've expended some time writing, (sometimes periodically) and before posting, I copy & paste the article into an editor window (program) as a temporary storage buffer, just in case that the page doesn't load/or post properly. This strategy helps to minimize a few of these 'ahhfoot' type moments.
I like and use 'Programmer's NotePad' for these type tasks, as the program is very easy to use, has many desirable features. Another very desirable feature is that it does not execute windows-scripts and as such is extremely safe to use on untrusted text documents, unlike MicroSoft's NotePad/WordPad. Also the program is almost fully customizable. And the best part of it all is, it is FREE, it is open-source (meaning the source-code is also freely available), and it also has no freebie-back-doors plugged into it either!! No registration required...it is truely free.
www.pnotepad.org/licensing/ (you may get a copy if you are so inclined...click 'download' on right side of page)
plutronus
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Post by skywalker on May 17, 2013 21:07:07 GMT -6
If I'm working on a really long post, especially one that takes me several days to write, I sometimes will save copies of it by sending them to myself in a PM. Of course it helps that I have several different accounts here that I use for storage of information. You can also send a PM to your own account if you wanted to. It's just a quick and easy way to save what you are writing. (If I was more knowledgeable about computers I would probably be doing something like what Plutronus suggested. Unfortunately I'm an imbecile.)
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Post by anthony01 on May 19, 2013 16:32:44 GMT -6
I have suspected that radio waves is what may have initially attracted them to come here to begin with, at least the ones who have been visiting within the past century. Still, radio waves travel at the same velocity as light so there lies the problem with time between two points. If we send one to alpha Centauri (which is an unlikely candidate for life) , it takes about 4 1/2 years to get there just one way. As you are probably aware, there have been a couple of times that we received signals that were different (suspected by some to be e.t.) from others within the em spectrum, the WOW ! signal (6EQUJ5 - SETI-Big Ear) being one. I wonder if some of our local group of surrounding cousins nearby laugh at "the honeymooners" or "I love Lucy"? Not knowing it is for purposes of comedy, I wonder even more what they think of us as a specie when watching some of those shows they are just now hearing and watching due to the distance. "War Of The World's". I'm curious if they take it literally like some of our people here did ? You are definitely correct that our radio waves would give away our presence, in and ever growing sphere as these waves propagate outwards from us. I'm suddenly curious as to how many stars these would envelop, given that we've been transmitting radio for about a century now. This would be a definite give-away that there is intelligent life on our planet. However, there would have been signs of life on our planet for a long time before that. Since life, as far as I know, is the only process that would create an oxygen-rich atmosphere, this has been around long enough to tip off just about anyone out there. One way would be if our planet transits the sun (between the observer), the observer could detect the presence of oxygen is the spectra of the light received. If a recall, there has been even some talk about us doing this eventually. Given this, if the "aliens" come from our own universe, it's possible that our own atmosphere had tipped them off millenia ago to the existence of life on our planet. They may very well have been with us for a very long time indeed.
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Post by bewildered on May 19, 2013 16:49:32 GMT -6
If I'm working on a really long post, especially one that takes me several days to write, I sometimes will save copies of it by sending them to myself in a PM. Of course it helps that I have several different accounts here that I use for storage of information. You can also send a PM to your own account if you wanted to. It's just a quick and easy way to save what you are writing. (If I was more knowledgeable about computers I would probably be doing something like what Plutronus suggested. Unfortunately I'm an imbecile.) The funny thing is, this only seems to happen when I *don't* use Word or Notepad to compose my posts. The 404 error was an anomaly that was recurring on that particular day, though I suspect that it has something to do with updates to Windows and IE (that could be the source of your image posting problems). I typically use multiple browsers, focusing on the one that seems to work the best with whatever website I wish to interact with. IE seems to work with proboards forums more consistently than it does on Firefox. I don't use Windows on my laptop since it is so unstable, but that particular computer is what I use for coursework, and I don't use it for anything else. I'm currently running Ubuntu on my laptop, and I like it.
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Post by anthony01 on May 19, 2013 16:59:43 GMT -6
I agree with your perspective, Anthony. I don't for a moment consider that existence can be meaningfully "separated" into discrete layers: what we see, hear, feel, etc., is a unified whole. There is an explanation for everything, regardless of our positional understanding at any given time. The "gods" that once pulled the Sun or the Moon across the sky were later understood to be something else entirely. Fire isn't "magic," it's an attribute of a complex series of interactions. What we see as "fire" is only one facet of something far more diverse in expression. We can see some of that "greater" reality when we use different imaging techniques to view the radiant phenomenon of fire. Something is "alien" to us only because it is unknown, or not understood. Bewildered, I think you've nailed it on the head there. Everything is part of a unified whole, but it our limitations in perception that prevents us from seeing (and understanding) this "whole". I suppose that is one of the problems with the scientific method. As much as it has helped us understand a very wide variety of phenomena based on presented (and repeatably demonstrated) evidence, but by extension it excludes phenomena that does not meet this criteria. In the search for a better understanding of physical laws, it excludes things that may very well be real, but for which we lack the perception or ability to gather evidence. That is one of the problems for any scientist wanting to do research on the alien abduction phenomenon. Given that there are no ways to perform repeatable experiments to find out the validity of these, science is completely mute on the subject, except to suggest it could be all in the mind of the abductees. Worse yet, inidividual scientists who would wish to investigate the phenomenon fear doing so, as there is a bias against this field of study, and the scientists may be subjected to ridicule from their peers. It reminds me of a recent book that I read, called "Proof of Heaven", by Eben Alexander. It is the story of a neuroscientist would did not believe in the after-life, until he experienced it himself. I imagine for most people, it is very much the same with the alien abduction phenomenon.
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on May 23, 2013 19:43:41 GMT -6
I love fractals and believe they form the basis of the universal geometry. I believe the genetic code is fractal.
In regard to them being sneaky, Whitley Streiber's last book put forth that we evolve in response to stresses and any stress that does not break us, will spur us to grow faster. Perhaps they invoke a re-awakening to the mystery. Perhaps they are intentional in the way they act, to stress us into thinking (or intuiting) more intensely. They seek to fire up our smoldering lives into a roar of emotions.
If they take sperm or eggs or do other sexual manipulation without consent, we would call that rape and fight tooth and nail. I think one of their main activities is to prepare for the statistical possibility that we will extinct ourselves and preserve a wide variety of our genetic diversity. This is scientifically 'the time of the sixth great extinction' on Earth. It is vanity for humanity to not consider itself a potentially ending species, since for some reason those with the most power seem the most reticent to change (I hope it is just their fear of losing creature comforts beyond most of our desires). No one agrees on what the change should be or what their individual part should be. They might re-introduce us, they might be cross-pollinating worlds, or they might have started humanity on a 'new earth', under a 'new heaven' (different star system: different sun, moon, and constellations).
I believe they are extraterrestrials who evolved on other planets. I think there are many species involved, based on the case report literature. The grays may be biologically enhanced intelligent machines and therefor do most of the dangerous work (like dealing with the savage humans who usually want to kill them on first sight out of fear).
How do they get from there to here? If gravity is as much faster than light, as light is to sound, and their ships defy or manipulate gravity according to observations, then no problem. Also the universe is 5%, while invisible 'dark' matter is 25% and invisible 'dark' energy 70% (approx.). If our physics only covers 5%, how can we even imagine the technology that is possible. Perhaps the dark matter is a realm that can be traveled through with different laws (pop in and pop out). Some have speculated that other beings evolve in the dark matter (though I do not think the UFOs are them) and others that that is the realm of ghosts between lives. We have a lot to learn.
I will add: I use textpad, (I have used notepad++ and programmers notepad looks good): But if you Cntrl-A (select all) and Cntrl-C (copy what is selected) right before posting, you can just wait and only do Cntrl-V (paste) if something goes wrong and you need to try again.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 10:56:33 GMT -6
All we have...is guesswork/speculation and our own 'feelings' to go by. When I was 5 and 'met' the first one..my life was chaotic and I was afraid of my own shadow..it stuffed something in my ear that to this day still buzzes.. When I was 16 I had a lot of fear in my life..my father was an unstable factor and my state of upheaval was bound to color any experiences that I had..most especially negative ones. And Sunbow..it IS rape. And always will be to my mind's eye..inexcusable by any means of perception. You do NOT take 16 year old and younger children and subject them to horrifying experiments if you are a good guy. They did...and they are not.
Now that I'm older..and I don't have the pressures I did then..my perception of them is exactly the same..they are small terrorists who abduct kids and perform their first gyno exam without the benefit of compassion or consideration. I am a nurturer personality. I had to lie frozen and watch my best friend screaming her brains out in absolute terror..watch them force her co-operation mentally then..saw all they did to her which was then done to me. Fading in and out of consciousness didn't help. Forgetting it until I was in my late twenties..didn't help...I always knew..there was something..bad..in my head.
I don't give a rat's touche where they come from..they didn't have my permission and the terror has managed to live with me a lifetime. They don't get a free pass from me because they are not from my neck of the woods and don't understand the native taboos. BS..they know.
They are not from the federation of planets wanting to add us..they are not here to save us..they are here for their own ends..and we may never understand what that is.
Now this is just my perception...and only a few here can actually relate to it..it worries me that some try to excuse it..or justify it..it worries me that anyone would think they are the guys in white hats..they were in my head..they caused me enormous pain there and elsewhere..so I'm not likely to ever invite one to dinner...and if my dna is flying around through space..I hope to he11 it has my outlook on them and gives them exactly what they deserve ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 17:51:02 GMT -6
I couldn't have said it better Jo. If "they" can read this..... "Go home you scrawny lil' 2,-1,-19,-tau,-alpha,-18,-delta,-19" !! "And stay there" ! If you only knew the first thing that came to my mind when I looked at that thing ( through telepathy I know it read me quite clear ),,,, You should've seen the look on it's face. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 22:40:29 GMT -6
Somethings are just priceless Thanks Cliff
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on May 27, 2013 9:43:58 GMT -6
I think we must have encountered different 'They's'! --- I believe there were at least three species present in the main event which shattered so much of my ego. In the long run, many of the innocent illusions which I lost allowed life changes which were beneficial. I was a person seeking enlightenment (an egotistical persuit which implies that I am a separate being and not in relationship to the whole) and in that encounter my eyes were opened to a vast galaxy of possibilities. The old me was shattered, but the new me is still growing.
Or perhaps our re-remembering is different. Since for a couple of months I could not think clearly about what happened and it took a while for memories which were there out of context to be accessed and considered, it is very possible that a person's own mental condition or unique personality plays a huge part in the impressions.
They are totally in control. This offends some. I am in control of my dogs, yet they accept that, except when they see the barn cat, then they still pull at their leashes wanting to give chase (but I maintain control). If I take the Cat to the vet, it is totally freaked out and offended, even mad for a while afterward - but all I can say is tough - it needed to be done. We are probably as primitive to them than a dog or cat is to us. We talk and our animals can't - they are telepathic and we can't. We are closed up in our private minds (we foolishly imagine they are private). They invade our illusion of privacy and we are offended, but the human races psychic output is polluting the galactic telepathic web. Humanity is very sick and hopefully not dying, but without major changes we may become extinct like the other species which have faded in this, the sixth great extinction level event on planet Earth.
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Post by anthony01 on May 27, 2013 10:04:46 GMT -6
And Sunbow..it IS rape. And always will be to my mind's eye..inexcusable by any means of perception. You do NOT take 16 year old and younger children and subject them to horrifying experiments if you are a good guy. They did...and they are not. Although I've never experienced it, but I also think it is rape. But having said that, from everything I do know, I would hesitate calling the aliens "evil", but I definitely think there must be ways they can achieve their same goals without causing that much pain. They may care about our species, but probably not us as individuals, unless we have some kind of individual relationship with them. I don't know if this will help, but consider how humans handle the other species on this planet. The other week I was watching this show on television about preserving the fish in the ocean, by setting quotas to prevent over-fishing. When doing fish surveys to determine what the quotas should be, the scientists are doing a good thing, as they are preventing the depletion of fish stock, and potential extinction of fish species. And yet, these same scientists can be seen as "evil" too, from the perspective of the individual fish caught in the survey. To perform the survey, the scientists catch fish, and count them. Looked at it a bit differently, what the scientists are actually doing are abducting the fish, if not killing them in the counting process. From the perspective of each individual fish, the scientists are terrorists, and evil. In this universe, I think it would be naive to assume that we are at the top of the food chain. Just as the fish cannot understand the agenda of the human scientists doing the survey, it's hard for us to understand the agenda of the aliens (and they aren't helping much by keeping it so clandestine). Whether their agenda ultimately is, I wish it were done in a manner that didn't cause harm to the individuals involved.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2013 11:07:22 GMT -6
Maybe I tend to assume a 'prime directive' when it comes to behavior of occupied planets. We are sentient beings..who have established laws, have morals and function in family units..which all should be respected by any visiting race. Naturally this is how it should be in MY universe but apparently is not. I'd also think that the more advanced the species..the more inclined to respect it would be.. I am not sure I would ever use the world 'evil' but I have a host of other adjectives that I'd apply
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Post by skywalker on May 27, 2013 13:03:31 GMT -6
Good job, Anthony. That's the same type of analogy that I often use to describe what the aliens are doing. They treat us the same way that we treat other species of animals on our own planet. Some we kill, some we eat, some we keep as pets, some we put in zoos or use as labrats in experiments...I'm sure different aliens, whether individuals or entire races, are capable of doing all of those things to us. The people who see the aliens as nice must have met some who treated them decently. Jo and I seem to have been the labrats. I guess that's better than being eaten or having my head hanging on some alien hunters wall.
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Post by lois on May 27, 2013 14:21:59 GMT -6
Good job, Anthony. That's the same type of analogy that I often use to describe what the aliens are doing. They treat us the same way that we treat other species of animals on our own planet. Some we kill, some we eat, some we keep as pets, some we put in zoos or use as labrats in experiments...I'm sure different aliens, whether individuals or entire races, are capable of doing all of those things to us. The people who see the aliens as nice must have met some who treated them decently. Jo and I seem to have been the labrats. I guess that's better than being eaten or having my head hanging on some alien hunters wall. In the movie 'V" they ate rats. They can have all the rats they want..I do not think they are meat eaters . look at a grays body. More like bread and water.. ;D
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on May 27, 2013 14:39:30 GMT -6
Other than a few cases, like the first Brazilian report, it is not really rape. They do not breed with those they take: they perform procedures. At least they do not 'fix' us, as we do our pets and cattle, though if they fixed the majority of humans and genetically selected for superior traits, perhaps humanity and teh Earth would be in much better shape.
We are too primitive to join any galactic federation or to own any planet, therefore some alien race owns Earth and by that same ownership, they own humans. They have these rights as much or more than the rights we engage in dealing with our pets and livestock. I would assume that they are protecting us; while there exists some alien races who would like to harvest the vast abundance of human bio-mass which exists. Let's just hope and pray that never happens.
Sentient - Defn: having the power of perception by the senses; conscious. Animals are sentient, but we eat them. Just because they cannot talk and speak up for themselves, does not mean we can dismiss them as not being conscious or self aware.
I am not offended by the actions of the aliens, since I do not know what the intent is. For my the judgement is suspended due to limited actual facts. Even what is recalled clearly can be screen memories or implanted memories, so we are really lacking information which is much more than knowing they are engaging humanity on a massive scale. The UFOs in teh sky have shut down ICBMs (showing they could stop a nuclear war) and possibly caused blackouts (which might be good if a huge solar flare or galactic energy wave happened).
I am not for or against any of their actions at this point. I am really wanting some facts though, so that I could make up my mind and then take action.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2013 15:43:21 GMT -6
Technically rape involves sex..but intrusion into a body cavity unwillingly is not a legal thing...anally..vaginally or orally. To me..their intent does not matter..and it was a violent act. Kidnapping..held by force and subjected to experimentation..theft of bodily fluids and other material and terrorism, not to mention psychological trauma years later because sex just tended to bring back really bad memories. Two teenage girls out in the middle of nowhere on a bright sunny day..happened to step into the twilight zone. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion about them..but I stand by my own. Cliff and Sky aren't their good buddies either...so I'm not alone, thank heavens because it's helpful have some shared anything. If I went into another country..broke their laws..in some instances I could get beheaded for it..imprisoned or tossed into a dungeon and forgotten...if someone gave these guys a free pass to do this...I'm gonna be really angry.
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on May 27, 2013 17:06:53 GMT -6
Peace. I am not trying to change your mind. As I said, I am not sure what to really think. My life was shattered. I will never be whoever I would have been without these events. Good or bad for me does not matter as much to me as what the implications may be for humanity. Some like Dr. Jacobs (the Threat) believe we are being invaded and its almost curtains for humanity, others like Mack and Colli believe they are trying to wake us up before we do ourselves in. Perhaps one or the other or even neither may be the case.
That being said, humanity is seriously screwed up and killing the planet we depend on for our future. Since I was a child I have felt something was seriously wrong here. Then again, as I look at my childhood, I believe they have been messing with me since I was born.
I agree that if the government has sold us out - we need justice - that is the law and the way of America.
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Post by skywalker on May 27, 2013 19:20:14 GMT -6
I definitely agree with that last part. If those government fools know this is happening and are allowing it for whatever reason they need their butts kicked from here to Pluto. I still don't know if they are in on it or not...they may be just as clueless as they seem. If they were in on it that might explain the coverup and all the lies. Does anybody really think they woukd ever admit knowing about it?
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on May 27, 2013 19:36:59 GMT -6
I know one thing - no matter what they say at this point I would assume it is more lies without proof. I know they have good photos and I believe Roswell happened, but I do not think they really know the truth.
I think they are clueless and the whole idea of them making deals to sell out American citizens in exchange for technology is a false rumor. I understand that making foreign powers think they have alien technology is a great psychological edge. No knowing the bottom line makes them cover up teh whole subject because they would never admit to being clueless and powerless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2013 19:49:23 GMT -6
I'd love someone to blame closer to home but I really do believe they are clueless. I wasn't picking on you Sunbow..the fact is some people report good encounters...I don't know if they had better suggestive brain manipulation or if there is a certain faction that is more ruthless. I only have what I remember and that memory isn't complete..maybe they gave out lollipops later
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