sunbow
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Post by sunbow on Aug 29, 2013 11:09:47 GMT -6
I love this quote and had to comment I have had little experience, but nothing like this, but it does show how deeply our mind overlays our perception. Many years ago I bought a house which was owned by a woman who lived there for her whole life of almost a hundred years. She watched her farm sold off and suburbs surround her. From how deeply the house was remodeled, I can only imaging the poor condition she lived in, but she stayed there and died there. I kept getting the impression of someone saying, 'what are you doing in my house?' Not hearing a voice, just a feeling that translated. I meditated and then explained the situation, at which time the energy cleared. Was it a ghost or just psychic impressions left, like localized Akasha - I don't know. Perhaps it felt like someone else's house until I claimed my ownership and right to be there. I do not judge myself or what is real, only how I felt and resolved the unsettling vibrations. Once my dad saw his passed mother walk though the living room where he lives. I am sure he saw her dressed in a manner typical of her. The fact that she was dressed seems to be his mind adding a layer on the energy body that passed through the room. Obviously if someone saw a naked ghost, that is just as false as a ghost having clothes, since the soul has neither body nor clothes.
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Post by skywalker on Aug 29, 2013 17:20:58 GMT -6
Perhaps ghosts manifest themselves in the minds of the people who see them and are therefor influenced by each individual witness. People see them how they think they should appear. Or maybe the ghosts can choose their own appearance...much like when someone gets up in the morning and gets dressed before going out in public. They wouldn't want to walk around in public naked would they...unless that's what they did in real life. Perhaps the ghosts images are psychic manifestations from the soul of the dead person. This might explain why they stay in the same location or keep replaying the same scene over and over again. I wonder if ghosts ever appear in nudist colonies? Would they be wearing clothes if they did?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2013 17:44:13 GMT -6
Sorry, I just found this after changing my quote! That quote really got me thinking, too. About my "true expectations" of what a ghost should be about. And how did I come upon those expectations?
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DEADnGONE
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Still have this damn illness to put up with. Not terminal,can be seen as good or bad, depending
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Post by DEADnGONE on Sept 11, 2013 22:05:44 GMT -6
After having been involved in doing Civil War reenacting for around 60 yrs., I have never seen a "ghost", though I have met more than my share, in anything but what he either was killed wearing or was buried in, most cases the latter. Most "battlefield ghosts" are in uniform, appearing at the moment of death. some continue to replay thheir deathd, otherd just stand and look down others wildly looking about as if to find where the rifle ball came from that snuff out another life. reenacting is our way of taking part in history that many of our ancestors did, I had 14 cousins that did and all came abck in one piece, BUT when one sees another reenactor", I wonder how often the thought might linger just long enough, "I wonder if he is real or one of them".?
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on Sept 12, 2013 8:23:05 GMT -6
Thanks Jcurio, it also got me thinking.
I would think a ghost is a sentient conscious entity without form, but projects their appearance depending on their nature. If they are earth bound (as opposed to visiting), then it is likely they are trapped in one scene and appearance, such as the civil war death which they are not accepting. I think a second layer would come from the person viewing them.
In the case of an old person starting to see their deceased partner, it is possible both sides would influence the image. I am not sure who's influence would be stronger, the ghost or the viewer, but that might depend on the personalities involved.
Then there are 'Inorganic Beings' or entities which may also be involved with (attached to) the dead and influence the situation.
This is not my area of expertise, but it is interesting to consider how we perceive things. Even in day to day life, our perception is shaded by our filters. Also, when we see someone, their energy might influence how we see them; for example, when a person is happy they might visually look better to people than when they are sad, regardless of such things as the state of their hair, etc.
Actual ghost stories might shed light on this, however stories are told by the experiencer, so they are giving their interpretation of what they saw, which may not be what they actually saw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 19:52:13 GMT -6
After having been involved in doing Civil War reenacting for around 60 yrs., I have never seen a "ghost", though I have met more than my share, in anything but what he either was killed wearing or was buried in, most cases the latter. Most "battlefield ghosts" are in uniform, appearing at the moment of death. some continue to replay thheir deathd, otherd just stand and look down others wildly looking about as if to find where the rifle ball came from that snuff out another life. reenacting is our way of taking part in history that many of our ancestors did, I had 14 cousins that did and all came abck in one piece, BUT when one sees another reenactor", I wonder how often the thought might linger just long enough, "I wonder if he is real or one of them".? I take it from this, that none of the ghosts have ever done anything to harm the reenactors . Nice to know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 20:09:41 GMT -6
I would think a ghost is a sentient conscious entity without form, but projects their appearance depending on their nature. This is very close to my personal definition of "ghost". This definition doesn't count entirely on the supposition of afterlife of a deceased human. I believe that the only reason a "ghost" of a deceased human would return to this plane, would be only on a personal basis, to help someone still alive. Not for us to help them. I know this is biased, but I have no idea how we could help a human that has died. I do have family members that pray for the deceased. I do not know if this practice is still taught in some Catholic churches. However, I do believe that there is something to helping "earth-bound" spirits. Not just the type that seem to be "stuck" in repeating the same ghostly behavior over and over. As I get older, and I know it sounds crazy, but I am tending to believe more and more that Earth is some sort of "Prison Planet". Even a simulated one. It doesn't make sense to me that all this galaxy was only created for beauty (or whatever), and we seem to be the only one of our kind. I don't believe we are just a type of "Zoo", though there are many types of "beings" and species here. Zoos are for entertainment, mainly.
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Post by bewildered on Sept 14, 2013 0:43:25 GMT -6
Based on my personal experiences, I view the ghost phenomenon as a form of residual, persistent energy patterning. I base some of my premises on observable attributes of the universe, and the rest on conjecture or what seems to fit logically in my view. I don't think that ghosts represent a manifestation of an afterlife, per se, but rather are "echoes" of the personality that imprinted the persistently oscillating pattern upon the surrounding matrix. Matter is energy, and energy is what comprises the totality of the universe as we know it. What we perceive of as "matter" appears to be somewhat holographic in nature, since it only seems solid to our perception due to the resistance offered by colliding fields. Unusually traumatic events could conceivably affect the energy matrix long after the originating personality decays into its constituent parts, creating what might strike us as "ghostly" manifestations. While we are alive and active in our present form, we are integrated beings for all intents and purposes. Over time, we have discovered much about our bodies and have gained some insights into how we are assembled, and one particular aspect of the integrated system - the mind or consciousness - is exceedingly elusive and impossible to observe directly or explain adequately through the mechanisms of and interactions between known bodily systems. Death is a process we can observe: it happens on a universal basis. Stars, planets, ecosystems, and living creatures all experience death, and if we pay attention to what happens as it occurs and after it occurs, we can see "recycling" take place. Energy is a constant in the universe, so it simply doesn't "disappear" or cease to exist. It merely changes form, or patterns. I see the personality, or the persona we have built during our life experience, dissolving upon death...but not actually dying. It merely changes form. The same applies to what we think of as our physical body. It, too, decays and changes form. The mind...the consciousness...the anima force that truly represents "you" also undergoes changes, but that is where my thoughts can't go right now. I don't see this consciousness being dependent on either a body or a persona in order to exist. It served as the core of our integrated body system, and I am totally mystified by it. It is the one element of the puzzle that presents a profound enigma to me, a calling card of something that is beyond our ability to presently comprehend. I think that the perception of most "ghost" phenomena is entirely subjective and relative to the viewer. There might be cases where this manifestation is so potent that it could effect electronic gadgetry, but I would think that would be exceedingly rare. However, since I have not experienced every ghost and every situation where this echo takes place, I can't say anything with a certainty. I am rather convinced of one thing, though: there is no such thing as "death" as we understand it in western culture. It is a transition event.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 8:43:05 GMT -6
I love it, BW, when you talk about this "thing" we call the "mind"! It gets me using my "mind". And, I totally agree. Nothing is ever totally destroyed. It either changes, or just (the energy) moves to another "place". I also agree with the idea of some ghosts being an echo. What bothers me about that is usually people tend to relate this to a violent death. I would think that a "violent death" would be more of a quick dispersion of energy. If I was to compare that to a star dying, an explosion of a star would disperse the material, and not regather itself. A star just dying slowly, and fading away, I understand that. That we still see it's "light" here on Earth, miles away, and it's been "dead" for a long time.
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Post by bewildered on Sept 14, 2013 16:16:19 GMT -6
I love it, BW, when you talk about this "thing" we call the "mind"! It gets me using my "mind". Hehehe. As I talk about it, it kick-starts my own. When Neil De Grasse Tyson relates that we are made of star-dust, he is speaking the literal truth. The energy you expend clacking on your keyboard to post here was once emitted by a distant star. There really is no such thing as death...only change. The energy from our own bodies will one day enable a fish to swim in a pond somewhere. Emotional energy can be observed within the body systems as well as seen with our own eyes in the people who experience them (sweating, crying, shaking, etc). It is a discrete emission of energy, and as such it is likely to affect the ambient fields of every other field it encounters at the point of origin. Powerful emotions don't have to be generated by a violent death...deep attachment could also leave an impression on the local matrix. People who spend many, many years living in a location can leave an afterimage (one way of describing the "echo") on the matrix, and people who are sensitive to subtle patterns could pick up on that. It's very similar to a photo negative. Stare at a bright light for a period of time, then close your eyes. You will "see" a negative relief imprinted upon your retina for a period of time. I think something similar happens with people and powerful emotions. They leave a "negative" on the energy matrix. I've rarely experienced visual components when encountering this sort of phenomena. It's emotional and intuitive for me. I "feel" the imprint as I approach it, and sometimes this is accompanied by thought-forms attached to the imprint. I have at times experienced mental imagery in my "mind's eye," so to speak, but rarely anything with the eyes in my skull. Visions, yes; optical effects, no. Stars are very, very interesting. I think a star is actually an analogue of existence and life. They radiate in every possible "direction" simultaneously, and in a very real sense, the star is everywhere that it radiates. A bit esoteric for this topic, perhaps, so I'll reign it in. Some stars explode and their constituent matter forms nebulas (which can serve as material for new planets or even new stars); others implode and become the mysterious black hole or neutron stars; others exhaust their nuclear fuel and become virtually inert. A number of different stellar states have been observed by astronomers, showing us that not all stars explode and "die out." I don't think that a star ever actually dies. The radiation emitted by the star *is* the star itself.
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on Sept 14, 2013 18:13:13 GMT -6
Thanks for the dialog. Yes the mind is good at re-asserting itself whenever possible. Never to philosophical, since the language is so limited compared to reality.
I am stuck by the scientific theory that the material universe is 5% and that dark matter (meaning invisible or undetectable) is 25% and the other 70% is bright matter (quintessence energy). I have a thought that the dark matter being 4 times greater than the known universe is a parallel dimension with four times the space or diversity. It is likely that inorganic sentient life may have evolved there as well. I believe this is the underworld, the realm of the dead, much more morphic and dreamlike than the physical realm. We have dark matter bodies while we live, but are largely unaware of them. Then there is the 70% bright matter, which I believe relates to consciousness and superstrings and non-local interaction or quantum entanglement.
The reason this world view seems to impress upon me as having validity, besides making intuitive sense, is that it matches the ancient teaching of the three worlds or the three realms. Hindu scriptures are filled with this three realms philosophy. Even the rough ideas of hell, earth, and heaven seem to reflect a three parallel dimensional realm philosophy. Death just removes the middle layer, the thin 5% material covering which is between these two greater realms.
I have done ancestral memory classes where people bring an old ring or some personal object and then read the impressions from it, often with very distinct results. Sometimes we have traded objects and then had the person who brought the object verify what the reader finds. These type of psychic impressions do not add up to a ghost. I would think a ghost has its own will or intent. I believe that in most cases a ghost is a dis-incarnate being, a soul between lives. Many people have seen cats as ghosts and also felt them walking on the bed or rubbing against them. The middle layer does recycle all material and energy, but yet seems to be like the tip of a much larger iceberg that is under the surface and yet dwarfed in a yet larger sea.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 19:27:50 GMT -6
Wow. I didn't know there was such a thing as this ancestral memory class. You've participated in some really neat things ! Isn't it cool how, once one looks closely, ancient belief systems fit right in there with science? and the more I think about it, the "Star" as a reference point for life, and as something the ancients studied and knew quite a bit about. . . I'm enthralled. I once thought I saw a "ghost" of my little dog. He died while I was away from home for a couple of months (the summer I was 17), and I thought I saw him several times the first two weeks after I got home. Wishful thinking? I never "felt" him. There were no sounds; no impressions on the bed. Will I ever see him again? I don't know. What I do know, is somehow a place was made room for in my heart, for another little dog (also a poodle) so many years later. I swear, it never crossed my mind what I was doing when I rescued this "new" poodle from a yard of 15 yap-yap dogs, to the pleasure of my kids. He was scrawny and ugly, but my kids wanted him. Has he replaced the much-loved poodle of the past? My, yes, for this time and period of my life. Do I think they are the same dog? No. I very much want to have both poodles with me in the after-life. If "ghosts" have a purpose, that would be the next thing to ponder.
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on Sept 14, 2013 19:41:28 GMT -6
I think that our relations with our pets are very powerful. Just because they are limited physically in their ability to relate to us, does not stop them from teaching us. They can be so devoted and loving. They definitely work their way into a very special place in our hearts. Sometimes I think pet ghosts visit just to help us know its OK and they are doing fine on the other side. So maybe that's the purpose they have.
Now someone who died in the civil war and is still wandering on a battlefield, I don't know. I have heard of stories about such things, but have no real knowledge of the details of these stories. I would guess that if this is the case, it is the classic lost soul, earthbound due to confusion.
I also have to wonder how ghosts see us. Can they? Or can they only in rare and extenuating circumstances? If their realm is four times as spacious and changing in a more fluid manner, what is the experience between lives really like? I know stories abound from hypnosis of meeting masters, getting training and picking your next life, but those do not really convey what years of life on the other side must be like.
I feel like I know so very little... But maybe that's a start, at least I am open and wanting to learn.
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