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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 11:13:07 GMT -6
I asked for this section, an area of spirituality separate from that of religion. Our intrepid leader feels that religion and spirituality are the same (he's not alone in that) but he nobly agreed with his usual grace..probably muttering about illogical women These are uncertain times.. prophets and mediums just might have it right and if not ending...the Earth might be about to undergo some powerful changes. I have a LOT of interests...and I'm guessing that most of you do also. Not just of things that go bump in the night or abduct the unwary or plant bases on the moon, in the oceans or some convenient hollow mountain. Not just of conspiracy theories or big feet or Nessies but of different realms, planes and even spiritual dimensions. If you happen to be an orthodoxly religious person..these areas could be offensive to the customary ways of thinking..that is why I asked for this to be a separate section.
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sansseed
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Post by sansseed on Mar 7, 2011 12:24:57 GMT -6
I agree when you say that spirituality can be separate from religion. I always felt that one could be spiritual and not belong or follow any particular orthodoxy. I guess what might be a sticking point is how one might describe spirituality. Is it believing in God? Is it not believing in God, but in a higher power or energy? So on and so forth.
I'll be very interested in seeing where this sections leads.
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Post by skywalker on Mar 7, 2011 15:19:01 GMT -6
The main difference I see between the two is that spirituality is based on a person's beliefs and religion is more of an organization based on those beliefs. My opinion of organized religion is that it is more about the organization than the religion. It's about power and control. That's why you always hear threats of people burning in *heck* or being struck by lightning if they don't believe. The leaders use those scare tactics to control people. That's probably why I don't belong to any organized religions. I don't call myself a rebel for nothing. I am a spiritual person though. I do believe the universe was created by an intelligent creator. Whether people want to call that creator God, Allah, The Force, or Puff the Magic Dragon is irrelevant to me. Different religions are nothing more than man's feeble attempt to explain the unexplainable. I just accept that it is and leave it at that. It will be interesting to see what Jo comes up with for this section. She always was smarter than me, even if she sometimes is illogical.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2011 15:47:09 GMT -6
*sigh* such abuse I suffer. Spirituality is a personal journey.. religion is being told how you need to perceive God. I don't need someone telling me what my belief's should be or that I am not going to heaven if I'm not baptized (my neighbor actually told me that). I can define my spirit quest on my own and it's tailor made for my needs and feelings. So far..no bolts of lightening from God telling me I'm wrong. I think Spirituality is multidimensional...vibrational...and I'd love to hear what everyone has to say about how they feel or experiences that they have had. I've had a couple that I'll share here. I know one thing..I KNOW that I will move from this plane to the next when I 'die'...many many people for some reason don't know this and to me that's a very sad thing.
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Post by starshipdisaster on Mar 7, 2011 16:51:40 GMT -6
*sigh* such abuse I suffer. Spirituality is a personal journey.. religion is being told how you need to perceive God. I don't need someone telling me what my belief's should be or that I am not going to heaven if I'm not baptized (my neighbor actually told me that). I can define my spirit quest on my own and it's tailor made for my needs and feelings. So far..no bolts of lightening from God telling me I'm wrong. I think Spirituality is multidimensional...vibrational...and I'd love to hear what everyone has to say about how they feel or experiences that they have had. I've had a couple that I'll share here. I know one thing..I KNOW that I will move from this plane to the next when I 'die'...many many people for some reason don't know this and to me that's a very sad thing. i couldnt agree more Jo
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Post by auntym on Mar 7, 2011 16:54:24 GMT -6
i think of myself as spiritual.... i know where i'm going when i die and that is to the great big party room in the sky with lots of relatives & friends waiting for me..... it should be fun.... ;D
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Post by paulette on Mar 7, 2011 16:57:56 GMT -6
Glad to see this up and the dialogue beginning. God....ah, there's a word. And everyone who uses the word has a particular definition. But by definition, anything outside of our human experience cannot be defined (by us). We can talk about it. We can pray and hope our prayers go "somewhere" and meditate and wonder if everyone else in the room is thinking about how much time is left to meditate.
Then there are the moments - and they can be talked about because they involve us in our world - but suddenly the frame gets much much bigger and we see/feel/sense our place in the majesty of the universe. And that the same stardust "out there" is in our bones, and our dog's bones and in the bowl of rice or even candybar that we are eating. A closed circle of energy, dancing with itself, tracing complex orbits, suns getting too hot and cooking their planets or orbiting strangers crashing into and knocking everyday reality into smithereens. (always liked that word).
In the midst of all this, we (the resourceful but poor at learning lessons)humans are making and selling things that are poisonous, won't break down in 100,000 years and killing off species that were happily established for millions of years. But not to worry too much. The comet that crashed into earth and annihilated 90% of the bioforms was God too. What makes me smile is listening to people who have some very comforting ideas which have never been more true for all that. That God will take care of one side of the desperate warriors in a war. That even though we are aware that SOME people's children die of diseases and accidents - ours have guardian angels and they'll be fine.
Well...religion particularly peddles these hopeful products. After all, if one is going to tithe or give up weekends to do this or that for the church or even shut down one's critical thinking centers - there HAS TO be some perks. Right?
Just to show that I am not anti-religious either (completely anyway): I think the Catholic Church has a bad track record of taking care of poor people and children but I truly believe in Mother Theresa - saint or not. She did amazing work with people that no one of ANY RELIGION even their own wanted to deal with. She saw to it that they were buried by their own ceremonies and did not convert the dying in trade of a cup of water and blanket. If girls needed doweries - she raised them. She said she was married to Jesus and I think they had a healthy active marriage. I remember reading an article in which Newsweek I believe went into her hospice for the dying in Calcutta to take some pictures. She was willing for that to happen - but did not allow flashbulbs to disturb the folks there. So it dark and the photographers knew they weren't going to get any shots - but interestingly, the ones she was in had plenty of light.
I believe in the witnessing power of Newsweek photographers. Like I believe in jet pilots who report UFOs flying next to them.
And away it goes....
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Post by starshipdisaster on Mar 7, 2011 17:01:17 GMT -6
i used to be very religious . I was a very devout catholic. Then i went to Afghanistan , and i realized if god had something to say to me , god would say it to me. No middle man , nothing. it was a life changing experience.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 10:47:17 GMT -6
Nicely said Paulette and StarshipDisaster..I agree totally. I also believe in miracles and that some people are given the grace to heal others. Mother Thresa was a spiritual person with such grace. She was truly amazing. I don't see how anyone could discount the testimony of people who have prayed to saints and been comforted or healed I sure can't and wouldn't try, I think these would have been healers by any path in any faith. Nor would I take a thing away from those who are religious or need congregation. We're not meant to be clones..differences define us as much as beliefs do. In this place...(the forum) already people think 'differently'. What is strange and bizarre to most...is exciting and anticipated here. So..why wouldn't there be a spiritual difference also? Free thinkers..questers..hunters. Those people who find their way here..in my opinion..are closer to the source and much less inhibited in thought. It's a good place to be and a good time to be there.
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sansseed
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Post by sansseed on Mar 8, 2011 11:19:52 GMT -6
I was brought up in the catholic faith, but walked away when I was a teenager. No one tried to stop me. I think everyone was sick of all the questioning I put on them, and tired of trying to justify the catholic beliefs to me. It was a very small congregation in a very small community, so if they wanted to "reform" me they could have sought me out easily, but no one ever did. Over the years, I have found my own spirituality. I personally do one believe in a God. Yet, I do believe in an energy (or force) that is alive in all of us and connects all things. We feel this when we meet new people, or when we sit on the ground next to a tree (or maybe it is just me). I feel joy when I let go of earthly issues and allow myself to feel this energy. Death does not bother me because I feel our energy does not die, but moves on to a different dimension or world, or whatever term you want to use. I have no proof of this, but feel it to be true. Those that I love and who have passed I feel are with me. Not in physical form, of course, but I feel them. There have been moments when this feeling is so strong that I look over my shoulder expecting to see them standing there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 20:45:34 GMT -6
I've had a series of 'oddities' lately...and this was just an extra little goodie. Since yesterday I can't get this song out of my head.."Don't worry be happy". Know how something just hangs on and won't go away? That kind of nuisance. Well it was still hanging in there today when all the sudden this phone number pops into my head..just as nagging as the song..would not go away. So..I'm thinking..who does this belong to and of course pretty soon..I have to dial it. It was a cell..and had the usual..while you're waiting please enjoy.. Yep...."Don't worry...be happy". Just to remind me..that I have a LOT to be thankful for and that the small worries..are insignificant compared to the blessings I have..that's how I see it. Out of the millions of phone numbers..the one that pops into my head had "Don't worry be happy" for a ring tone. Yay universe Which by the way...I have no clue who 'Tim' is other than the owner of the phone. (Insert twilight zone music here).
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Post by skywalker on Mar 8, 2011 20:51:22 GMT -6
Perhaps "Tim" was sending you a message...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2011 21:12:09 GMT -6
Tim wants to smoochie you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 10:35:15 GMT -6
That is probably it...some lonely guy out there in the world..needing a ~smoochie~ and sending me a psychic come hither. Now that I think on it...I'm sure that's it.
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Post by paulette on Mar 9, 2011 10:43:26 GMT -6
You should have left a message - Hey! Unknown Guy!! How about changing your dial tone song. It's bothering me. (That might put the fear of whatever into him).
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Post by skywalker on Mar 9, 2011 11:36:21 GMT -6
Actually, Jo, what I was implying is that maybe this "Tim" really was sending you a message. Maybe he has psychic abilities that he is projecting out to people, possibly without even knowing it, telling them not to worry and be happy. Maybe the two of you were on the same spiritual wavelength and you somehow tuned in to his thoughts. Or maybe the message was coming from someplace else and it had nothing to do with Tim, but was meant especially for you. They always say that the Lord works in mysterious ways...maybe the rest of the universe does too. There are all kinds of interesting possibilities.
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Post by auntym on Mar 9, 2011 12:02:13 GMT -6
i'd say that was very freaky.....and a sign from the universe....telling you to BE HAPPY......LOL
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sansseed
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Post by sansseed on Mar 9, 2011 12:49:53 GMT -6
I think it is pretty awesome. I mean, if you are going to get a message from the universe, what a great message. I had a dream last night about an issue that has been bothering me for quite some time, and the basic message was "suck it up". Not exactly touchy feely.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 13:24:03 GMT -6
I think you're absolutely right Sanseed. I thought it was very awesome and I felt pretty honored to get that. I have one or two others that happened along that line but the problem with 'spiritual' sharing...is that you're sharing something almost soul deep and personal. You kind of want to be sure of your audience first 'laughing'.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 15:56:37 GMT -6
I think you're absolutely right Sanseed. I thought it was very awesome and I felt pretty honored to get that. I have one or two others that happened along that line but the problem with 'spiritual' sharing...is that you're sharing something almost soul deep and personal. You kind of want to be sure of your audience first 'laughing'. There is nothing to be ashamed of when dealing with people. The main thing you have to worry about is those people with big Egos. The Id is that which we all have... and every ID wants to communicate and share deep personal details with your fellow man... which is something the Ego frequently forbids. That is the beautiful thing about empathetic telepathy and the collective unconscious. The Ego has nothing to do with such raw communications of feelings... ~hugs~
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Post by starshipdisaster on Mar 9, 2011 16:02:22 GMT -6
Getting a message from "the universe" or " the divine" or "the almighty" or what ever you chose to refer to it as, is an awesome experience. Ive told several people about mine, some laughed , but i didnt care. It got me threw the hardest and scariest experience of my life. its evens like that , that make people stronger and better people, no matter what the message says.
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sunbow
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Post by sunbow on Mar 9, 2011 18:03:01 GMT -6
Personally I do not separate myself from the universe from god, it is all parts of a unity with various different internal relationships. Words confuse, but I have had numerous experiences where I have sensed a synchronicity that implies a higher form of consciousness or life force, like the universe being alive and aware of us as little bits of itself. Things happen that do not fit the materialistic world view. I believe that some of the alien races are also aware of this energy, presence, group mind, or whatever limited words we us. As we advance, this relationship to the spiritual will become more important that the things our society currently holds as having value. It was this was with some indigenous people, so we seem to have temporarily devolved with all our machines. To remember these things, and then share them, is a very important evolutionary force.
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Post by paulette on Mar 9, 2011 19:11:28 GMT -6
I agree Sunbow. I have been posting dreams - at first it seemed egotistical - but then other people here wrote that they had similar dreams. So we may be coming into synchronicity here. Or we are here because of synchronicity of what we are willing to look at.
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sansseed
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Post by sansseed on Mar 9, 2011 19:57:40 GMT -6
Personally I do not separate myself from the universe from god, it is all parts of a unity with various different internal relationships. Words confuse, but I have had numerous experiences where I have sensed a synchronicity that implies a higher form of consciousness or life force, like the universe being alive and aware of us as little bits of itself. Things happen that do not fit the materialistic world view. I believe that some of the alien races are also aware of this energy, presence, group mind, or whatever limited words we us. As we advance, this relationship to the spiritual will become more important that the things our society currently holds as having value. It was this was with some indigenous people, so we seem to have temporarily devolved with all our machines. To remember these things, and then share them, is a very important evolutionary force. So, my iPad is holding me back! Dang! Here I thought I was being progressive. ;D Actually, I really like what you wrote. It rings true for me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 20:15:25 GMT -6
I agree Sunbow. I have been posting dreams - at first it seemed egotistical - but then other people here wrote that they had similar dreams. So we may be coming into synchronicity here. Or we are here because of synchronicity of what we are willing to look at. OK... GROUP HUGZ!! ~snugglez~
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 22:07:46 GMT -6
Rings very true Sunbow.
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Post by skywalker on Mar 9, 2011 23:25:13 GMT -6
Personally I do not separate myself from the universe from god, it is all parts of a unity with various different internal relationships. Words confuse, but I have had numerous experiences where I have sensed a synchronicity that implies a higher form of consciousness or life force, like the universe being alive and aware of us as little bits of itself. Things happen that do not fit the materialistic world view. I believe that some of the alien races are also aware of this energy, presence, group mind, or whatever limited words we us. As we advance, this relationship to the spiritual will become more important that the things our society currently holds as having value. It was this was with some indigenous people, so we seem to have temporarily devolved with all our machines. To remember these things, and then share them, is a very important evolutionary force. It's interesting how the so-called civilized societies with all of their machines and technological developments are the ones who worship all powerful and controlling Gods while the "primitive" cultures who are more in tune with the Earth and the universe seem to be more spiritual in nature. The civilized cultures try to force their gods on the more primitive cultures, but in doing so is it really God that they are promoting? Or is it themselves and their power? Organized religion, after all, was created by man. It was woven together with rituals and traditions, put together piece by piece with books and beads, and cemented with prayers, hymns and Hail Marys. Religion is basically a machine, and like all machines it is used to change the world. It crushes the other cultures, it reshapes and changes them, just like a bulldozer reshapes the environment by plowing it over and rebuilding it. It's a shame that in order to create we must first destroy. And what is it that is being created? The Bible says that God created man in His image, but maybe it is the other way around. Maybe man created the gods in man's image and uses those gods simply as a machine to force others to bow down and obey. So in essence, the "civilized" man really believes that he is the creator, or in other words, that man is God. They are essentially worshipping themselves and their creations.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 2:52:08 GMT -6
It's a shame that in order to create we must first destroy. And what is it that is being created? The Bible says that God created man in His image, but maybe it is the other way around. Maybe man created the gods in man's image and uses those gods simply as a machine to force others to bow down and obey. So in essence, the "civilized" man really believes that he is the creator, or in other words, that man is God. They are essentially worshipping themselves and their creations. Right. Absolutely right (except worshiping should only have 1 p ) People who don't believe in a divine creator worship THEMSELVES! Narcissists! There are many scientists out there who are this way. Doesn't the bible warn about these sort of people? Doesn't it refer to these people as "False Prophets"? And the "Anti-Christ" is the false prophet to end all false prophets... a false prophet to end civilization as we know it! God (or at least the people who wrote down his "word") said that this way of thinking is wrong and will ultimately be detrimental to our society. I am inclined to agree with God on this one... although he and I have had our disputes every now and then... ~nods~
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 10:47:02 GMT -6
Maybe some scientists are narcissists and certainly a lot of 'brainy' people have huge egos (brings to mind..well never mind) anyway...I see 'false prophets' more the Jim Jones's of the world and the igannant person who convinced all 39 young people to commit suicide because there was a space ship in a comets tail and to hitch a ride you had to die.. (note he didn't make the trip). Heavens Gate. I think anyone who rears their head up and announces that he knows the truth and follow me..is suspect. It's written that no one will know the hour.
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Post by skywalker on Mar 10, 2011 21:11:59 GMT -6
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." -- Albert Camus I have always kind of liked that quote.
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