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Post by swamprat on Apr 20, 2017 19:55:01 GMT -6
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Post by paulette on Apr 21, 2017 11:10:11 GMT -6
Swampy - I totally agree. We can't ditch science. But I must play the devil's advocate for a moment. Some science is heavy funded - by big business and pharmacare. The studies that might show that all is not well with a new drug or insecticide or...aren't done. University research is funded by - yes the same big players. To get your degree you serve as a go-for in the lab and if you are lucky you get your name on a paper eventually. Most would not try to do that with an opposing view paper.
Science gave us Thalidamine (one brave Canadian woman doctor stood up against it and a whole generation of Canadian kids were born with intact arms and legs.) Science gave us Agent Orange. Even if one has an indifference to what it did and is still doing to Vietnamese rice farmers, its clear that it was sprayed on our own soldiers (USA)and caused lifetime harm. I am close to one family who had sons who were foot soldiers in the Vietnam War - one is dying of Agent Orange Induced Parkinson's (at least he gets a pension) and the other lives with hard to diagnose cognitive and emotional problems. He is totally disabled and wasn't when he left for Vietnam. Now science is assuring us the GMO is all good and Round-up Ready crops and subsequent heavy use of said poison is all good. Somehow fracking is has been given the green flag too.
So pardon me Neil if I cast a cynical eye on these approved by science wonders. Scientific inquiry and experimentation is the way to find the truth. But it has to safe to expose unpopular truths that will cost some megabusiness a lot of money. Better to bury it in bull bleep or make sure it never gets published. Or support to the tune of billions of dollars a President who is willing to say yes to anyone who hands him the money...
Not politically correct to say this? Maybe. Science can and has been corrupted. Doesn't mean that we can live without it. But the process of approving drugs and chemicals needs a thorough overhauling...
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Post by swamprat on Apr 21, 2017 14:44:28 GMT -6
I don't disagree with you on those issues. I lost a a couple of very close friends in Vietnam due to Agent Orange. And there is no doubt that big business interests are impacting the integrity of scientific endeavors. However, I don't think that impacts the legitimacy of Neil's comments.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 14:50:24 GMT -6
Ya'll know how the Arctic Amazon feels about global warming so I'm just gonna post this face: π
Oh. And just because scientists tweak their numbers and agree with other tweaked numbers so the government can give them more research grants to stick thermometers in the ocean (right next to the warm boat motor which many have been caught doing by the way) does not make it science.
Yes. I agree with Mike's research. We need more money... er...i mean research.
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Post by jcurio on Apr 21, 2017 19:57:18 GMT -6
For what it's worth, the video itself is calm, simple, and very well done.
What I "heard" immediately afterwards in the comments posted below the video, is it is just too simple.
Starting with the VP of the United States misrepresenting the word "theory". Or theorem.
Language, linguistics, whatever, is how "someone" uses a measuring stick to determine how "advanced" a society is. At least it used to be that way.
You all knew what Pence meant, right?
π€
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 23:17:51 GMT -6
A lot of things have contributed to the 'denial' he's talking about. Politicians who want campaign dollars will say anything to get votes including down playing crucial issues concerning global warming and...people believe them. We have lost the ability to think for ourselves. Not so much here in this place because we've been in some way altered..but I will EVER fall back on the stupidity of people by reminding everyone of the lady who had seen the exorcist remake and was chatting along to her friend about how you could tell this one was fake and how real the original was because ...no one could spin their head like that unless it WAS real. And that goes a long way to summing up why we're slipping backwards..That story is true by the way...and she seemed not an unlearned woman. I mean she had vocabulary ..proper syntax..etc. Just incredibly (in my own opinion) um mentally flexible.
The world is full of people who do not care a whit about science..or global warming as long as the Starbucks is open. Who cares if the glaciers all melt and cities sink amid the rising waters..that marine mammals and animals are fighting for dwindling space to have their young..and survive.
There was a 'bomb' scare locally at the front gate of a Naval station here in San Diego today. Not a big deal but they must treat everything like it is..because ..well it could be. My neighbors mother..told me there was a bomb threat on the Coronado bridge and she was really surprised that N. Korea wasn't aiming for the local military bases instead of bridges.. well...some people just don't comprehend well either..she wouldn't have a clue..about global warming or dirty bombs or even what planes the military flies. Really..it isn't in her 'orb' and it's not there for a lot of our citizens too.
Our government has done some dirty rotten things. Really BAD things..tested things..used people..lied and finagled and swindled..and most of America still listens to them and expects them to tell us exactly what to think and do. Well...maybe that's why most of us feel restless and keep looking up..waiting for something.
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Post by swamprat on Apr 22, 2017 8:30:50 GMT -6
We've lost all traces of bi-partisanship. And of course, the Democrats blame the Republicans and the Republicans blame the Democrats.
Obama was not as bad of a president as the Republicans say he was, He was not as good of a president as the Democrats say he was. The jury is still out on Trump. I hate his attitude toward science and technology; I feel he has no business using twitter as a main means of communication(but of course I'm just an old man). But he IS shaking up the Washington establishment and it's about time SOMEONE does!
It's not even "Party first, people second", it's "the corporations who bought me first, Party second, people third". The only two things that will fix this are term limits and stringent limits on who can donate how much to each politician.
Do you know that over 2/3 of our representatives and senators list their occupational career as "politician"? Not at all what our fore-fathers had in mind. Most of these people never held a real job.
Collusion and shady deals are rampant. I think God for "traitors" like Snowden and Assange. These people are heroes in my opinion.
More than ever right now, we NEED politicians who are not "owned" by corporations and wealthy meddlers. To achieve globalization, economically and socially, is a daunting task. Can that be done without sacrificing America? Perhaps, but we need the utmost in integrity, we need open discussion, we need bipartisanship, we need to be able to access every asset we have--science, technology, education, corporate knowledge, et al.
The Republican party is in shambles; the Democratic party becomes more socialist every year. I weep for this country. Every great nation on Earth since the dawn of time has collapsed. It may well be our turn.
I will pray to our Lord and Savior that it's not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 13:42:26 GMT -6
Good luck finding a non-corrup politician.
The reason why democrats want to prompte global warming- is GE and other "Green" manufacturers. The big corporate fat cats who also own MSNBC. They want to make money by promoting alarm and panic. Just like the scientists do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 9:34:14 GMT -6
Corruption pays if you're in politics I guess. Short of pulling up stakes and moving to ..well Iceland seems nice..which none of us are likely to do...there isn't much to 'fix' things here. Large powers are made large by people stepping on people to manipulate their own agendas. There IS a problem with global warming..there IS a disaster happening with tearing down rain forests..there IS world starvation and there ARE nations at each others throats and there WILL again be war. But..people do exploit all of those issues making them seem worse or better in some cases..to manipulate public out cry. And then there are just people out there who LOVE to cause alarm..conspiracy theorists who would have you believe aliens are about to rise up out of the earth and take over. Could that be worse? I wake up anymore and realize..it is what it is...the future is happening too fast for anyone to keep up with and it's not pretty..still..this is the world we have to live in..it is what it is. Make the BEST of every day you open your peepers and that is all you can do. Let your family know you love them..always do that..and then just do the best you can.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 11:10:31 GMT -6
I'm not all that fond of Michael Moore but he has a pretty good track record of 'prediction' (not psychic or maybe in part it is). Anyway..his political quote here rings a bell.
And that IS what happens when people are so easily led by media, by government, by escalation of word of mouth. What starts at point A is vastly different at point Z..it's out of proportion and nuts and often dangerous. His theory here is that there WILL be a terrorist attack on American soil (again) soon..and that Trump's reaction will be a very dangerous one that we need to fight (I'd love to know how).
With all of the threats and saber rattling (N Korea) and pressure with such big players..China, Japan, Russia, US all in one little knot on the Peninsula ..well maybe that would be a good time for someone to lob something at us here at home. It's a war mongers dream.
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