onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 16, 2012 7:07:31 GMT -6
That's why ours isn't purely logical a universe..there are way too many doors for that I think That there is more going on than meets the eye, yes - I agree. All I am saying is be careful of the terminology you use to define it. The term GOD is not that old a word, and it wasn't used exclusively throughout history. In everything that has gone on in my life, my first reference WAS the use of the term GOD - because that was all I had. When I lived in NY there was something that was there - something that worked with me, someone I could talk to and fall back on that did manifest itself, helping me out when I needed help. What was odd was that when I moved to N Carolina, it wasn't there anymore. When I moved to Texas, it still wasn't there. But if I went back to NY - it was there. This is not "GOD" - but it is SOMETHING - I just can't say WHAT, and I am not going to name it until I know what it is. Regarding the logical / data approach, all I am saying is that we need to clarify what it is we are dealing with, in whatever aspect of the picture we are looking at, and that is where the logical approach comes in. Above I agreed there was more going on than meets the eye - all I am doing is NOT labeling it because I have no data to construct a final picture. It doesn't mean it isn't there, I just have no information to say exactly what it is. Logic and data need to be the approach, because without it we remain in one spot scratching our heads, going 'round in circles. One really good example is the "serpent" in the Genesis account at the time of creation. Who is the serpent? How many guesses have there been regarding that character, and to date no one knows. Well, try this explanation out for size. Atum was thought to be a self-created god, who made the whole of creation out of himself. He first took shape as a serpent which came into being in the primeval waters of the Nun. Egyptians believed that at the end of the world Atum would revert to his serpent form and return to the Nun, which he would then allow to once again cover the earth and so destroy it and all he had made. This was recounted in the Book of the Dead, Chapter 175, as told by Atum himself to Osiris. The "serpent" was a way of saying - which "GOD" are you going to follow? Egypt's - or ours? This gets into a discussion that has gone on for 100 years at least, where the line "And the earth WAS without form and void..." is better translated as "The earth BECAME destroyed ..." which follows the historical picture much more accurately. Then we get to the eating of the "fruit" of the tree, and there is no such fruit as good and bad, hence the usage is figurative. The word BAD does not mean evil, it means " to destroy, to break something into pieces and destroy it so it no longer is functional." What we have is a partaking of something that gives the idea of choice - in the overall context, it would be a doctrinal choice. In the Hebrew phrase we find the imperfect form of the Hebrew verb (you shall die) with the infinitive absolute form of the same verb (dying). This presence of the infinitive absolute intensifies the meaning of the imperfect verb (hence the usual translation of "you shall surely die").
... the Hebrew word is repeated which is a technique often used in the Hebrew for emphasis and the last of the passage is often translated more literally as "dying thou shall die". A less literal translation is "for as soon as you eat of it, you shall be doomed to die".
So, if we "figuratively eat" of the "tree" of the knowledge of something called good and bad death will be the outcome.
(The idea of "choice" which brings confusion; what is right and what is wrong - in Hebrew 'wrong' is called 'Ra'. Translated, by the time it gets through a zillion languages and gets to English, it's 'wick-ed-ness', which is a very abstract term in our culture. But in Hebrew it means 'to destroy, to break something into pieces and destroy it so it no longer is functional. "Good" = Something that functions properly.) So again, if we "figuratively eat of the tree" of the knowledge of something called good and bad, death will be the outcome.In what is going on here, all I am saying is that because we do not try to dig deeper, we wind up holding pictures that are not correct. The Adam / Eve / serpent story is one of choice ... whatcha gonna do? Who are you going to follow because "CHOICE" does not exist in your picture (which is control) and if you choose incorrectly - oh well. Did GOD create the world? The question to begin the quest would be - which of these "GODS" was first mentioned, and when was that? Christians can look at the Muslim religion and say it's very late in history - why don't they say that about their religion? It's all about HOW you think.
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Post by paulette on Apr 16, 2012 10:33:37 GMT -6
Probably interesting but I'm not going to follow each sentence to the end one way and then back to get the beginning the other way. Big photo = me not reading it. (and no I don't have any problems anywhere else).
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onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 16, 2012 10:46:58 GMT -6
To keep this simple, my experiences are in a group of three separate topic time slots.
1955 - 1993. In that time, the "study" began in 1973. In all of that time the central figure was "GOD" for the simple reason that for me, there wasn't anything else. Something was wrong, it involved Christianity, and had to be fixed. Had NO clue what it was about.
1993 - 2006. The "ET" topic was injected - never knew it existed. Was what was going on in my life - about ET? or GOD? Final conclusions - ET. There is no GOD.
2006 - 2010. The Orion segment and the inclusion of the nebula aspect. All components of the picture make the correction to the belief. Paul's "New Testament" was an error ... biblical scholars have shown the beginning of a doctrinal change that began after 1st Thessalonians. The doom event (the day of the lord) was expected in Paul's lifetime - it never happened - changes were made to the doctrine to cover this seeming error. 2000 years later, people still wait - they do not question.
After everything in history is looked at, Paul's approach includes what has been called the dying god, who is the son of the woman, who originally was the feminine goddess. Before Egypt and Sumer, she never had a husband or son - history was being rewritten and Paul's approach was just another version. He thought the destruction was coming, he was wrong. ...............................
1955 - 2 events. 1) lit up bedroom event and an arrival of about 5 beings. Nothing happened that I know of, but I did - go to sleep (?) - and woke up later. If something happened during that time - I have no clue.
Dealing with this event would be a classification of constructivist schema, or simply something I could fall back on later and ponder. There is no "learning" in this event, just a picture. I classify it as entertainment only.
2) Next morning (I believe) as I got dressed for school, had an intrusive thought event. "The Catholic Church is wrong" ran through my head.
Dealing with this event, would be my first piece of information - but it would not come into focus for many years.
1956 - went to the movies with my parents, and at a particular part in the movie when the main character was talking to the people in the scene, another intrusive thought hit my head: "You see what he's doing? He's talking to people. You are going to talk to people just like he's doing." What could you possibly say to that at 6 years old?
According to written notes I found, there were other lit up bedroom events, I just don't remember them.
As a teen, I was so frustrated by the idea of some - study - coming, and having no clue what it was about or how to do it - I quit the whole thing. Told GOD to leave me alone, and that was that.
Had odd events in my teen years too, like being on some table - and someone was doing something to my left leg. Someone was stroking my head, and I felt compassionate waves of - "It's OK, don't be afraid" go through my head. I couldn't see a thing.
As close as I ever got to the ET subject in the '60s was sightings documentary shows on TV - ET did not exist as a subject for me back then. Saw a ball of light one day while sitting on my front steps, thought it was a plane, didn't think twice about it - until it stopped in midair - hung out a few seconds - and then shot out to the east. From that point I suddenly got sick - slept on the lounge for at least 2 hours - and when I woke up my dad was talking to our neighbor across the street. He called me over and told me my neighbor saw me sitting on the steps, he turned his head for a second, looked back and I was gone. He said there wasn't enough time for me to have gone anywhere - so what happened? And why did I get sick?
The next main event was what I called a brain expansion event that hit me one day at work from out of nowhere in November of 1970. I suddenly had a depth of thought I never had before, and began reading about topics that just hit me to read. This went on for 3 years when it seemed that - study - I knew was coming, finally arrived in '73. I had quit this about 10 or so years earlier, but - maybe I should look into it. I decided to go for it, and joined this research organization that studied the biblical texts from a scholastic point of view. Unfortunately their approach was dead wrong, as you don't do research with a preconceived picture you are trying to back up as true. I never realized that because - I was a believer - and I was actually doing the same thing they were doing.
I left after 7 years, floundered around in the same old material for almost 10 more years, was bored out of my socks, wanted to quit as I was getting nowhere, but decided not to because "I didn't want to be 80 and wonder what it would have been like had I not quit." It was about that time an unordered book catalog popped up in the mail, and I began to look at seemingly related subjects like the dying god, Egypt, metaphysical stuff - there was something there, but I wasn't sure what.
Phase two:
This went on until 1993, when one morning I woke up with the oddest line running through my head ... "The Alien Connection." I had NO idea what that was about ... and just treated it like everything else - off I went to the used book stores to look for some topic - on aliens.
It was from this point on that everything in my head slowly began to change. There was something here I had never considered before because I had never heard of it before. On the one hand there was GOD and what I had learned since I was a child, then this ET subject - and then this error that concerned the destruction / salvation from the sky event in Christianity - which is what that religion is all about.
In '97 Dr L's book Earth Under Fire came out, and I caught up with it in '99 because of an email someone had sent me. By that time I had been getting into Marija Gimbutas' approach to the Goddess Culture, I had a pile of - ideas - but nothing conclusive yet. That wouldn't begin until 2006. We can get into that later. It seemed ET was the original idea behind the destruction / salvation scenario, and that had something to do with the goddess culture that was replaced - but there was still a piece missing.
This is kind of general, and there were events that happened AFTER I began to read about this ET subject - which I find suspicious because nothing was learned, so were they coming from my own head? If not, they were still entertainment only events. I can post them if you want - or we can get into the last phase later.
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onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 16, 2012 10:52:03 GMT -6
Probably interesting but I'm not going to follow each sentence to the end one way and then back to get the beginning the other way. Big photo = me not reading it. (and no I don't have any problems anywhere else). I can see one
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CitizenK
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Post by CitizenK on Apr 16, 2012 13:00:22 GMT -6
Ok while I agree that ET coming here somehow replaced the Goddess religion, I do still believe in a Creator. What that means exactly, I cannot say, I don't hold to him/her it being physical but sentient. All I know is that everything is too intricately put together for there to not be intelligent design behind it and when I pray...someone answers. I do not need to understand who or what that is exactly... furthermore it would not surprise me if we find out that ET (and I use that loosely) is our creator. For all of the digging and research I have done, they very well could have had at least a part in our creation here. We are finding this out now in our anomalies in our DNA , one in particular that no other creature has, and the ones that came in on the "side' instead of through normal evolutionary process. Not to mention all this 'junk dna' that we are finding can be activated through meditation and conscious healing. SO to say that it is not possible that they are who created us is just denial of what may be the truth. And you're right, some hold dear to their belief systems and do not want to hear all truths, just some of them. I for one, let go of all of my religious beliefs long ago in order to clearly find the truths. It really is the only way to see everything. Non biased and without presumptuous or prejudice thought.
I think the Goddess religion was pretty simple. I am an altruistic person. Which is also fairly simple, it is to honor life , period. (to sum it up) It and the Goddess worship is a way to celebrate life in general. The woman represents birth (obviously) so she is a creator...the native and indigenous ppl.'s still revere the woman because of this. She is the top of the hierarchy because of her ability to create new life.
What I don't understand is why the ET intervention happened...how could it have taken over the Goddess belief if they are who created us to begin with? Or could it be that back when we were created (Enlil and Enki epochs) that someone did something to help us along possibly to be able to pro create? and this *angry* off the hierarchy who then decided to punish that person and us by taking away certain knowledges. I came across some interesting stuff when I was researching the Epochs of Gilgamesh, and the Epoch's of Enoch with the stories of Enki , Enlil, and Marmaduke,etc., that lead me to believe that one of the 'creator' scientists who came here to seed this planet with a test subject , had an affection for us and wanted us to be able to reproduce on our own and so made a small group able to do this (eating the forbidden fruit?) before getting caught or ratted out and those ppl. went off in hiding (cast from the garden of eden?) so that they wouldn't be destroyed...from then on the story of the serpent is really the story (in a coverup) of the one who had the affinity for us and made us able to reproduce on our own, to slander them (her) and make her out to be the villain from then on, i.e. the proverbial devil. I don't ascribe to a devil per say though I do believe in evil/ negativity ...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 13:22:27 GMT -6
Paulette..nope you don't have any ;D I don't debate spiritual beliefs..they are personal and precious and the one I call God has many many too many to count..names. I will debate until the cows come home..come to think of it..I don't have any cows anymore..but I'll debate forever on the alien agenda because no one will ever know that until they give over with some info. Nope I don't think the world is coming to an end any time soon..my spidey sense is adamant on that point BUT that is my belief ...and no one has to hop on my little red wagon with me unless they want my company I think every one of you has made excellent points..posed excellent questions and have been great listeners. What matters is what YOU believe. Like Auntie said..the key really is to be positive and steadfast in what you want. Aim for joy and joy will be drawn like a magnet .. dwell in the negative and that to will seep in. This is what I believe..and I'm unshakable on it. Things to do with UFO's and the supernatural and all things that go bump in the night I'm all ears on because sooner or later someone will have a camera in the right place at the right time. Namaste
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onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 16, 2012 14:22:06 GMT -6
Ok while I agree that ET coming here somehow replaced the Goddess religion,
More accurate to say because they didn't come 5300 years ago, people replaced the so-called goddess culture (who held this ET belief) with new doctrine.
As far as believing in a creator, the problem is that word has a defined meaning and conclusions can be jumped to. I have eliminated what I see as the problem, and it's up to the individual what they want to do with the topic.
I do still believe in a Creator. What that means exactly, I cannot say ... That's a problem screaming for data ... I don't hold to him/her it being physical but sentient.
How can you have any conclusion when you just said you don't know?All I know is that everything is too intricately put together for there to not be intelligent design behind it and when I pray...someone answers.
Anytime you look at an end result - it's an effect of a cause. It will look like an intelligent design if that's what you want to see.I do not need to understand who or what that is exactly...
Umm - yes you do.
furthermore it would not surprise me if we find out that ET (and I use that loosely) is our creator. For all of the digging and research I have done, they very well could have had at least a part in our creation here. We are finding this out now in our anomalies in our DNA , one in particular that no other creature has, and the ones that came in on the "side' instead of through normal evolutionary process. Not to mention all this 'junk dna' that we are finding can be activated through meditation and conscious healing. SO to say that it is not possible that they are who created us is just denial of what may be the truth. I don't have a problem with it - I just can't say for sure, and can not hold a belief based on speculation.And you're right, some hold dear to their belief systems and do not want to hear all truths, just some of them. I for one, let go of all of my religious beliefs long ago in order to clearly find the truths. It really is the only way to see everything. Non biased and without presumptuous or prejudice thought. This is what hard data presents ... without it, one has nothing. I don't believe in a "creator" for the simple fact that 1) it hasn't been proven, and 2) the original idea came from mythopoeic thinking back when everything changed. I think the Goddess religion was pretty simple. I am an altruistic person. Which is also fairly simple, it is to honor life , period. When you say "I think" that's a data problem.(to sum it up) It and the Goddess worship is a way to celebrate life in general. The woman represents birth (obviously) so she is a creator...the native and indigenous ppl.'s still revere the woman because of this. She is the top of the hierarchy because of her ability to create new life. My approach in this deals with an extremely right hemisphere artistic expression (AKA early language) of the idea of "life" connected to the continued question regarding the obese nature of this woman, carried for 10s of thousands of years - until history was rewritten. Suddenly, this "goddess" is svelte - lost ALL of her symbolic weight. That is a significant fact.What I don't understand is why the ET intervention happened...how could it have taken over the Goddess belief if they are who created us to begin with? Or could it be that back when we were created (Enlil and Enki epochs) that someone did something to help us along possibly to be able to pro create? and this *peed* off the hierarchy who then decided to punish that person and us by taking away certain knowledges. The "goddess" was a symbol established during the time of the 40,000 BC event - it didn't signify the life giving abilities of woman, it symbolized "life" in the context of destruction. I came across some interesting stuff when I was researching the Epochs of Gilgamesh, and the Epoch's of Enoch with the stories of Enki , Enlil, and Marmaduke,etc., that lead me to believe that one of the 'creator' scientists who came here to seed this planet with a test subject , had an affection for us and wanted us to be able to reproduce on our own and so made a small group able to do this (eating the forbidden fruit?) before getting caught or ratted out and those ppl. went off in hiding (cast from the garden of eden?) so that they wouldn't be destroyed...from then on the story of the serpent is really the story (in a coverup) of the one who had the affinity for us and made us able to reproduce on our own, to slander them (her) and make her out to be the villain from then on, i.e. the proverbial devil. I don't ascribe to a devil per say though I do believe in evil/ negativity ...
People have had much to say about what was actually "new doctrines" being written back then. One of the worst was Zach Sitchin, and he was taken apart by a linguistics expert and shown to be an - well, not a scholar. www.sitchiniswrong.com/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 15:27:24 GMT -6
Onlychild, Since you seem so intent on finding proof for anything that exists I feel I should remind you of a phenomenon which has eluded science for decades. Electricity. Electricity is still considered a theory because it cannot be scientifically proven- and yet it works. Science is unable to prove its existence- yet we are able to see its effects every time we turn on a light switch or switch on the dishwasher. Just some food for thought there my dear. I one was just like you. I demanded evidence and proof for everything. If there was no evidence and if there was no proof, I did not want to believe it. I have seen and experienced things which defy any conventional or logical explanation. I exhausted myself trying to understand and explain the things which happened to me. I came up empty handed every time I tried. Some things are beyond the reach of science as we presently understand it. Certainly, one could say love is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the body- but the poets of the human experience and the philosophers will say it is something more than mere hormones flooding the blood stream and is certainly something more than electrical sparks (created by a reaction between sodium and potassium) between neurons and axons. Human beings require emotional gratification. Babies who are neglected by their mothers often die because they do not receive that which they need to thrive- love and physical contact. Science does not provide us that which we need. All science does is make the void within the soul/heart larger, more intimidating and deeply foreboding.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 15:49:23 GMT -6
Jeeze Lorelei..now I have to screw down my brain tighter again and good reference. ;D The very definition of faith is the belief in something you don't have proof of. That pretty much is the point of it ;D It is a choice. Don't believe or do..that simple. It's not something you should do because everyone else does..it's something you should do IF it feels right for you to. We tend only to make things harder for ourselves as we struggle to prove IMO
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Post by charles on Apr 16, 2012 15:57:23 GMT -6
Hi all! Onlychild - I admire your tenacity to your subject, belief in what you have discovered & worked out, the dedication to it being so in-depth and over such a long period of time. I take it in essence you're working in ever decreasing circles as the more information & knowledge you gain, the clearer you see what the end of your trail holds - would that be right?? I also wholeheartedly hold & subscribe to the right that you have to be heard and to have your words respected. By the same token, please respect others rights to their beliefs and how their truth gives them spiritual strength to live their lives how they see fit. Just because their thoughts or beliefs do not conform to yours, this does not mean they are wrong. For all I know, any beliefs that I have may be the wrong thing - if they are then they are and I will face the consequences of that if & when. The same for you. The same for Paulette, Jokelly, Auntym, Lois, CitizenK, Sunbow and every body else. I will listen to your thoughts - I may even see things from your point of view and actively follow them - that is my choice, right or wrong, nobody else's. As has previously been mentioned in an earlier post, some of us may actually see things in the same way as you - but because we put it differently or come at it from a different angle you think we don't see things like that (Okay, an analogy in my old way - there's a train operator in the UK called First Great Western. Their corporate colour is, in my eyes, blue - but officially it is purple no matter how blue their trains seem !) However I see things, if people may disagree that's fine & I wholeheartedly embrace that because we can't all be exactly the same - we'd be a) clones & b) pretty dull and boring ;D ;D !! I would not, however, take it upon myself to tell another person they are wrong for the beliefs they have that keep their life positive & enriching for them. Right, I'm about done for tonight (feels the collective sigh of relief !!) ;D ;D ;D !! TTFN! Take care, seek peace and SMILE! Charles
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 16:00:11 GMT -6
Color is a cool perspective Charles. Color blind people don't see colors as most of us to either. The world is not a cookie cutter to only be perceived in one manner. It's a whole universe of rainbows IF we want to see them. ;D
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onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 16, 2012 16:17:48 GMT -6
As a mass answer for all - please remember one small detail ... this entire picture I am going on about was not my idea. I didn't go to them - they popped up in my life.
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Post by lois on Apr 16, 2012 16:46:15 GMT -6
Who is the teacher. Ones faith, is not always from a church. You seek it out for yourself. If one leaves a church, I believe it had not truth or that person would of seen it to begin with.
Bible states those who have a ear. let him hear. Those are the ones that understand the truth. There is no other way. Reading Bible means nothing to most folks. It is a history book. Some don't believe it is true history either.
There are too many avenues in a church or what we call a church. It has nothing to do with ones interself. and how to obtain truth.
We choose as Jo has stated. I cannot see one find truth through faith. And leaving it. They never found it to begin with. One will know, without any proof.
I'm not big on the idea of scientific proof. This kind of proof we do have is only for a tiny speck of what we have not discovered. And sometimes it contradicts itself.
Such as medicine. It is good for what ail's a person and ten yours later people are dying from taking it. as the new chemistry of this drug was not proven save.
I think this thread is quite interesting and feel your purpose here. Can you proof who popped this into your head.? Would love to hear more about that part of your statements.
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CitizenK
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Post by CitizenK on Apr 16, 2012 17:10:07 GMT -6
1st I'd like to say that I am not screaming for data in any of these areas you think I am...some people are simply okay not having the whole picture on certain things. 2nd, I did not take any info from Sitchin so there's no point in bringing him up, he has nothing to do with what I or we are speaking about. Everyone has great points here. I admire your forthright attitudes with standing your ground. As a mass answer for all - please remember one small detail ... this entire picture I am going on about was not my idea. I didn't go to them - they popped up in my life. Just because these things have 'popped' into your life does not make them 100 % accurate. It is your belief in them making sense that's making them accurate to you. I am starting to see why you have a problem with getting your whole point across to anyone...if you spend more time and energy picking people's words apart and/or telling them what is wrong with them or their views, we get no where. If you choose to tell your opinion (and yes, that is what it is, since you admit you can't prove it) then by all means 'move forward'. I appreciate your wanting to share and I respect your views, but you must do the same to others. None of us have it all figured out and the second someone claims to have it all figured out is when I stop listening....forgive me for saying so bluntly that it sounds like to many of us that you are being rather arrogant in your opinions of what is right and what is not....(must either be a virgo or a capricorn,hmmm) (and yeah, that's my opinion) Let me also remind you that you are not our teacher, you are an equal here...let's please keep things in perspective before you end up greatly offending someone. Just because we don't have barking dogs doesn't mean we won't come together in defense of offensiveness to others. Everyone has been quite civil in your attempts to correct them thus far & I'd say you are teetering on the balance with some of your past comments. Make your point, not pick at others, please. Peace & Namaste
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Post by paulette on Apr 16, 2012 17:44:35 GMT -6
This thread makes me feel seasick. I'm not going to poke or respond to the whole flow of it but neither do I "buy" it (entirely) either. Maybe a HOWLING dog.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 19:54:07 GMT -6
Charles, Citizen, Very lovely posts. You guys were able to express what I was thinking but I was unwilling to type it out. I couldn't agree more with the two of you. Jo, after that post I made I also think I need to screw my brain back down tighter...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 19:57:51 GMT -6
............................... 1955 - 2 events. 1) lit up bedroom event and an arrival of about 5 beings. Nothing happened that I know of, but I did - go to sleep (?) - and woke up later. If something happened during that time - I have no clue. 2) According to written notes I found, there were other lit up bedroom events, I just don't remember them. Had odd events in my teen years too, like being on some table - and someone was doing something to my left leg. Someone was stroking my head, and I felt compassionate waves of - "It's OK, don't be afraid" go through my head. I couldn't see a thing. As close as I ever got to the ET subject in the '60s was sightings documentary shows on TV - ET did not exist as a subject for me back then. Saw a ball of light one day while sitting on my front steps, thought it was a plane, didn't think twice about it - until it stopped in midair - hung out a few seconds - and then shot out to the east. From that point I suddenly got sick - slept on the lounge for at least 2 hours - and when I woke up my dad was talking to our neighbor across the street. He called me over and told me my neighbor saw me sitting on the steps, he turned his head for a second, looked back and I was gone. He said there wasn't enough time for me to have gone anywhere - so what happened? And why did I get sick? Phase two: This went on until 1993, when one morning I woke up with the oddest line running through my head ... "The Alien Connection." I had NO idea what that was about ... and just treated it like everything else - off I went to the used book stores to look for some topic - on aliens. I know these things are not easy to talk about and its even more difficult trying to understand them. I also know from personal experience that after you have had an encounter with these beings that it can change a persons perspective/views on their faith/religion itself because it goes against the grain of what we were taught while growing up. Having the experience you had back in that era probably just made it even more difficult because it was less accepted then compared to today, and even now it's still hard for the majority of the population to accept as being true. I had 3 beings visit me like I had previously mentioned . I am a Christian, but my views of the bible and how it is interpreted is different than most. There is only one church that I listen to, and its far enough away from home that I have to watch it on t.v. in order to study along and learn from because of the diversities of different beliefs/faiths. Its even written in Revelations that out of the 7 churches mentioned there were only 2 that Jesus wasn't peeved with. I have come to accept that like the bible states there are hosts in heaven, and alot of them. Knowing that,,,it doesn't move me in my faith,,,it only enhances it personally. Paul did talk about the day of the Lord. If you continue reading you will notice that His time frame isnt the same as ours because a day to the Lord is like a thousand years and vice versa. The apostles were under the impression that the time was at hand for all to be fulfilled but Jesus stated in Matthew,Mark,Luke,and John that there must first be a falling away, that the antichrist would first come and deceive many, and also told us about the parable of the fig tree(Israel becoming a nation again(1948)) among many other clues. Combining all of this together, I believe that this antichrist will probably come as an entity (from space?)that many will think is God, trying to deceive the very elect if it were possible. This is the 666 that Revelations speaks of (the 6th vial-the 6th seal-the 6th trump).This entity will have abilities that seem supernatural and many will worship it. The 666 is not what a person has on their forhead or right hand,,,its what's IN their forehead,,,that is,,,their mind,,,their belief. If they accept this entity as being god than they wont stand a chance,,,but if they hold fast their belief and wait for the true Christ to come than most likely they will have the salvation they have been waiting for. When it comes to alien sightings in the bible,,,the 1st thing I think of is Job among many others. In a way I think it is safe to say that our creator is from another place, time,and dimension. His Son came from a woman but not a man. Instead, He came from the supreme power over all. When we were 1st created the rib(dna structure) was placed into man. This is what was 1st intended for us to be.(ha-adam) There was a time when mankind did breed with fallen angels(aliens most likely) that were not from here. This is why the flood happened,,,to wash away the bad dna that was intermixed.(eth-ha-adam). Just my beliefs and my 3 cents.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 21:05:09 GMT -6
That's a very interesting theory Cliff. I have never heard that one before...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2012 0:40:23 GMT -6
Anytime you touch the spiritual and the beliefs of people..you touch very tender places. We ARE what we believe. Only child..in every person here who has had an encounter or abduction..'they' were the ones moving on it..not we human types. But..there are other possibilities too..other theories. One rather nasty alien..manipulating..making people believe what they see or feel is real. That's only one thought. Multiple races..and Steve's friend Han..does say there are others here. Or the Gray abductors are on a scientific field trip playing with the lab rats (us) sort of a catch and release program for visiting ET. What you believe..may be exactly what you are meant to believe..the same with the rest of us. No one said there could be only one truth and no one is suggesting you should alter yours. Debate is cool as long as it's not the dude wearing a similar mask..argument (that would be the guy with the noisy dogs) Paulette..I'm feeling a bit head spinnish too so I think I'll move on to different areas of the forum. Any one wants to discuss anything I've added, feel free to message...Door's always open
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onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 17, 2012 8:12:50 GMT -6
Anytime you touch the spiritual and the beliefs of people..you touch very tender places. We ARE what we believe. EXACTLY. And there's a name for that - cognitive dissonance - that sort of battle in your head when you hold two opposing views of a belief. This is what started this mess 5000+ years ago. If you think I don't understand that feeling - think again. I was there in that exact same spot years ago. I looked at my life long beliefs (Christian) I looked at where the data was going (I didn't even have all the answers yet), and I wasn't sure what to do. It was at that point I made up my mind that I wasn't going to change my beliefs until I had the data to prove those beliefs were wrong. Guess what - those beliefs - were wrong.Only child..in every person here who has had an encounter or abduction..'they' were the ones moving on it..not we human types. But..there are other possibilities too..other theories. One rather nasty alien..manipulating..making people believe what they see or feel is real. That's only one thought. Multiple races..and Steve's friend Han..does say there are others here. Or the Gray abductors are on a scientific field trip playing with the lab rats (us) sort of a catch and release program for visiting ET. What you believe..may be exactly what you are meant to believe..the same with the rest of us. No one said there could be only one truth and no one is suggesting you should alter yours. Debate is cool as long as it's not the dude wearing a similar mask..argument (that would be the guy with the noisy dogs)
Believe me - I DO understand - I have heard that approach many times - and this is why I don't buy it.
Look, here we are today, the many different people of planet earth. There is an approach to this I call the BTRIM approach, or, Beyond This Room Is More. Since we were babies we have learned that there is more going on beyond our bedroom. There is the rest of the house, the street we live on, the neighborhood, the town, city, state, country, continent, planet. In all these steps there were always more people - and different people. Now we look at the sky - and wonder.
The idea here is that we would be a microcosmic version of what is up there - and logic would dictate that what we see here could be going on up there - or could it?
We are well aware of the problems that are going on here on earth, but do we stop to include cause and effect. When I was in court as a witness, I told the court flat out that I do not believe in right and wrong, I do not believe in good and bad - I believe in cause and effect, and THAT is a completely different picture.
In other words, we are the way we are here on this planet because of one thing and one thing only - brain function. It doesn't go any further than that.
Now, "WE" have come to the place today where WE know about this, even us down here - the neuro-newbies, who can look at a particular picture, pull up the chart in our heads that shows "normal vs abnormal" and come to a neuro-newbie assessment of what it is we are looking at. The line that's usually used is "That person is crazy." OK, what's crazy? Bottom line - their BRAIN is not functioning NORMALLY. "WE" can see this - and those who know FAR MORE than we do, can whittle that picture down to a complete diagnosis that explains WHAT is wrong, be it chemical or physical damage, or physical abnormality in construction. Bottom line - whatever it is, the motor ain't working right.
There is another aspect of this picture, where ET scientists look at us as cattle, and just perform their experiments, not caring what happens to us. The first thing I would ask is are we sure the person's information isn't "tainted" on some level? Don't jump to conclusions, you really don't know.
Now I'm just a low intelligence cattle-like human, but for some odd reason I have respect for the lower life on this planet (I LEARNED that). They have their life to live, such as it is, and I don't want to disturb that. In some instance, some medical procedure may need to be performed on an animal, the animal goes into fear-mode because it doesn't realize it's necessary, and has to be sedated. Maybe some of these "experiences" fit that model, all I know is that it has never once happened to me. I've had weird - but after all these years all I know is that they are WAY smarter than us, and the empathetic aspect that seems to be there, is the manifestation of a more logical approach - maybe they don't have a mid-brain emotional area like we do. All I know is that I have never once been traumatized.
People looked to the "GODS" of old ... but Hermes, the messenger of the gods, was a sociopath. They didn't know what sociopathy was back then, but the picture was there. What is sociopathy? In the simplistic triune brain model for neuro-newbies like us, the emotional mid-brain isn't working. In the case of Hermes, whatever was needed to acquire the desired object was used - that is a conscious manipulation of the minds of the masses.
As an adroit speaker, he was especially employed as messenger, when eloquence was required to attain the desired object. ... Hermes was also the god of prudence and skill in all the relations of social intercourse. These qualities were combined with similar ones, such as cunning both in words and actions, and even fraud, perjury, and the inclination to steal; acts of this kind were committed by Hermes always with a certain skill, dexterity, and even gracefulness.
"Hermes" doesn't exist - however, the people behind the curtain who created this picture were full blown manipulative sociopaths doing what they do best - getting what they want and NOT CARING who is hurt or killed in the process. Sound familiar? Today they are called the Powers That Be.
If we take this picture and project it into the sky, we have to ask one simple question: Are all beings out there insane - sociopathic - and normal all at the same time just like here on our planet? Is it all brain function and malfunction? Do you mean to tell me that if that is true, and they can do some really cool scientific stuff like travel to distant worlds and galaxies, use worm holes and who knows what else, that it never dawned on them that they could be nutz? OR, are we just projecting our own fears into the cosmos? I know for the longest time I had a real problem with "ET not telling us anything". I called it the Distance Factor and it just didn't make any sense. We are so used to having the answers tossed at us, we are confused when we have to do the thinking ourselves. That's still teaching - and it has a name - it's called constructivism. "But we haven't learned ANYTHING." Hmm - maybe, like in my experiences, where I went from 1955 to 2006 never realizing THE ANSWER ISN'T THERE (or actually, no longer there) we just think we are going to find something - but we don't - but we keep looking - and still find nothing - but we keep looking. It's kind of like the web-definition of insanity: We keep looking at the same material, over and over, expecting different results. It's at this point "beliefs" enter the picture, and we lock ourselves away in these dataless conclusions, echoing Bacon's remark: People prefer to believe what they prefer to be true.
Look, there are 7 billion lives hanging in the balance here ... I'm not sociopathic - I care. If this was any other subject, I'd just let it go. When TSHTF everyone will pull out their beliefs like a sword from its scabbard, and stand there yelling AH-HA ... it's at that point you will find out if you are right or wrong. I'm one of these people - I'll whip out my final conclusions as well. I don't care if in the process of learning I discover I am wrong - because finding out what something is, by discovering what it is not, is just a back door to learning.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2012 9:47:53 GMT -6
Only child..names for things don't make a difference. The feelings of others do. If it makes anyone happier for having a label to stick on it then cool..but mostly I just want to see harmony in the forum and respect given and shared I call it..'the Golden rule'.
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Post by auntym on Apr 17, 2012 11:17:45 GMT -6
we've had this debate before onlychild... what screen names have you used on other forums...?
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onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 17, 2012 12:48:27 GMT -6
Only child..names for things don't make a difference. The feelings of others do. If it makes anyone happier for having a label to stick on it then cool..but mostly I just want to see harmony in the forum and respect given and shared I call it..'the Golden rule'. Although I agree with David Keirsey when he said "... people differ from each other, and that no amount of getting after them is going to change them" I do think there is a time to put away those things that make us go in many directions ... and this event is one of them. It's been a learning experience - again. Bye.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 1:52:57 GMT -6
I hope you find what you're looking to find OnlyChild. I don't think you're right but I'm not sure you're wrong...as with everything else to do with the topic Be well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 9:11:14 GMT -6
You wouldn't have used the 'nic' Patience on Ufomania would ya??
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onlychild
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Post by onlychild on Apr 18, 2012 16:46:04 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 21:30:30 GMT -6
We do over-think things sometimes..it's just the nature of the beast. I am as passionate about my beliefs as you are yours so it's not hard for me to understand your drive. It takes a lot sometimes to 'stand' before those who don't share it. I don't expect others to follow my same path but I'm delighted to find the ones along the way who do.
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onlychild
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There are inherent biases in the data upon which we base our beliefs.
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Post by onlychild on Apr 19, 2012 8:12:40 GMT -6
We do over-think things sometimes..it's just the nature of the beast. I am as passionate about my beliefs as you are yours so it's not hard for me to understand your drive. It takes a lot sometimes to 'stand' before those who don't share it. I don't expect others to follow my same path but I'm delighted to find the ones along the way who do. OHHH - I get it now ... these UFO forums are where people who already HAVE the answer, go to hang out and hope to find others who share their particular version of "the answer", and talk to others who share a different answer and begin a either a peaceful discussion about how they are wrong or a diatribe - hence the "barking dogs". It's kind of like parallel worlds, where every possible variation of the same world exists all at the same time, even duplicates. So, really then, I do fit in here - except I'm all by myself because I haven't found one person who thinks like me. But wait - could it be that low levels of latent inhibition causes a disturbance in the force kind of like a multidimensional schizophrenia - with only CHOCOLATE sprinkles? [/img][/center]
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Post by paulette on Apr 19, 2012 8:51:51 GMT -6
I like BTRIM: Beyond this room is more. I endorse that 100%. And besides us and our earth is more. Much much more. When you get to "right" and "wrong" I step back. Right for whom? Wrong according to ....the lab rat? Or cat or rabbit or dog or....free range human subjects?
We treat the others here (Earth) who share substancial amounts of same dna with us, horribly. I just signed a petition elsewhere to ask Tim Horton's not to sell pork that is produced using "gestation crates". That is, the sow cannot turn around, cannot change sides that she lays on. The piglets are out of reach - are never nuzzled, touched, in any way allowed to be natural beings with a mother. They can nurse. After however many weary cycles of that - her protein is recycled. Being picked up by a blue beam and put down again in one's own bed seems trivial compared to that. Sometimes (as a supposedly spiritual intelligent being), to quote John Cougar Mellancamp, "I can't STAND myself."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2012 11:29:51 GMT -6
OnlyChild..you may be missing my point (not hard, mine are very abstract). It's not that others choose to believe like us. It's that others are absolutely free to believe as they want to believe. We all have had a shot at stating or sharing our beliefs and encounters or abductions. Interest is given or not. What we try never to do..is to insist..our way is the 'right' way..maybe it is..maybe it isn't..maybe there are billions of 'right' ways..billions of earths and dimensions of the soul. We don't know. If we're open to the direction the universe leads us in..we'll get to where we need to be (this I believe). Sharing isn't about making sure everyone hops on your band wagon because you have to be right because it's logical and thought out and well..it just HAS to be. It may be all of those things to you and maybe others will see your point and agree or not. I can sit here until I'm blue saying 'but wait..I am a psychic..I do see forward and I don't see this helter skelter'. But..other psychics including Nostradamus and Cayce..have seen and been wrong or were they? Did they see correctly to have the end game bend around some unforeseen corner? In other words..they saw or I see what is..IF..we progress along one path..if it changes..well whole new ball game. The future is not set in stone..people change it every day..by listening and not taking 'that' route to work or not listening and panicking and burying their heads in the sand. There ARE always solutions we just don't always see them. You're not singled out here as right or wrong OnlyChild..just blend in with us, relax and enjoy..listen to us..let us listen to you. We're happy to have you.
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