starkiller
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Post by starkiller on Dec 27, 2010 21:39:49 GMT -6
Psychedelic Drugs: Hallucinations or Hightened ConsciousnessJune 23, 2009 by natalina extraordinaryintelligence.com/804/the-unexplained/paranormal/psychedelic-drugs-hallucinations-or-hightened-consciousness/This debate is as old as the hills, but let’s explore it anyway. It’s a fun and fascinating topic, wouldn’t you say?
The question is, while under the influence of a mind altering substance, particularly mushrooms, Peyote, and for the purpose of this post MDMA (Ecstasy), is it more likely to have a genuine paranormal experience, or is the altered state of consciousness responsible for these otherworldly encounters?
Let’s do this by going through each of the above mentioned drugs, talk about the common effects, and then reflect on some paranormal claims made by those under the influence of the drug. I’ll try my best not to sound like an old hippie as I write this
Magic Mushrooms
“Magic” mushrooms are fungi known for their psychoactive alkaloids or organic compounds such as Psilocybin, Psilocin or Muscimol. Mushrooms can be eaten or drank in a tea, and produce a powerful psychedelic trip. The effects of the trip depend greatly on the current mood of the individual taking the ‘shrooms. The trip is generally shorter than that produced by acid, but many claim that a mushroom trip feels more natural. Mushroom trips are about heightened sensory experiences. Colors are brighter, sounds are more melodic, and many users classify their trip as spiritual. That said, a bad mushroom trip can be a 9 hour journey through hell, bringing all of your worst nightmares into vivid reality. Users warn that it is important to insure that you are in a clear and upbeat state of mind prior to ingesting mushrooms.
Shaman and medicine men have been using mushrooms for millenia and beyond. Early cave drawings feature pictures of what are clearly magic mushrooms, and ceremonial ingestion has always been common. Visions and mystical otherworldly journeys are the sought after result of spiritual mushroom usage, and some claim that it can unlock doors to other dimensions and unseen realities. Even today, people claim that they have experienced heightened ESP and anomolous encounters while under the influence. A great place to read about personal paranormal experiences related to mushroom usage can be found here: gaps.net.au/index.php?showtopic=305 and www.mysticboard.com/paranormal_phenomena/22187-some_paranormal_magic_mushroom_experiences.html
Peyote
Sometimes known as “The Divine Cactus”, Peyote (Lophophora williamsii) is a small, spineless cactus native to Texas and Mexico. Known for it’s psychoactive alkaloids, primarily mescaline, Peyote perhaps more than any other drug is used for it’s spiritual and transcendent qualities. The effects of peyote can last 10 to 12 hours, and create deep trance-like experiences, which is likely why indigenous people of the Southern U.S. and Mexico were known to use it in ceremonial activities (some still do).
Today, Peyote is sometimes used recreationally, but largely retains it’s reputation for being a spiritual gateway. There is even a movement of churches that have sprung up around the use of Peyote. One example is The Peyote Way Church, whose web site can be viewed here: www.peyoteway.org/
MDMA (Ecstasy)
This may seem like a strange choice for this list, but I am completey intrigued by some of the lesser claims by those who’ve used this drug. MDMA or Ecstasy, is a psychedelic amphetamine known to produce strong feelings of comfort, empathy, and connection to others. Although there have been reports of the negative MDMA experience, users generally claim that they receive and overwhelming feeling that everything is “right” with the world. The drug is known to heighten sexual feelings, as well as feelings of love and affection.
The paranormal or heightened consciousness aspect of Ecstasy that has me so fascinated are the claims by some that it can open up access to or awaken Kundalini. According to Erowid.org:
Kundalini is an evolutionary energy reportedly lying dormant in the perineum, and is often symbolized as a sleeping serpent, coiled silently in the root chakra at the base of the spine. The name ‘Kundalini’ is used specifically in Hindu and Buddhist Tantric tradition, but the energy of which it speaks has manifested in many different forms in different cultures throughout the globe….
….This energy, when lying dormant, is responsible for all the unconscious processes in the human body: eating, sex, desire, respiratory function, etc. When consciously awakened and risen up the sushumna nadi (energy channel) through the successive chakras, various powers or ‘siddhis’ are awakened, including creativity, productivity, reduced need for sleep, heightened intuition, various abilities that could be called psychic, healing powers, greater intelligence, increased sports performance, incredible states of bliss, and so on.
Many of the effects of MDMA mimic the awakening of the Kundalini, and some even claim that it is a gateway to this higher state of bliss. Not merely a chemical experience, but a metaphysical one. One such experience is related here: ecstasy.org/experiences/trip74.html
With the above information, we’re likely no closer to a consensus about whether or not drugs can enhance the paranormal or transcendent experience, or if they simply mimic such feelings and encounters. It is worth consideration however, and I’d love to hear your thoughts.
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Post by skywalker on Dec 27, 2010 21:48:42 GMT -6
I have never used drugs so I don't have any experience with them, but this story is kind of interesting. If psychedelic drugs are capable of altering consciousness, or the mind's thought processes, then could they somehow increase a person's psychic abilities? Is it possible that some of the "hallucinations" that people see are actually different realities? I started studying psychology at college because of the weird psychic abilities that I developed after my "too close encounter" and I am fascinated by how the brain works. What is really amazing is that we know so little about it. Scientists say that we only use about 10% of our brain-power...what would happen if the other 90% suddenly kicked in?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2010 2:18:10 GMT -6
Scientists say that we only use about 10% of our brain-power...what would happen if the other 90% suddenly kicked in? We would all go INSANE...
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Post by skywalker on Dec 28, 2010 7:45:10 GMT -6
Maybe we already are.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2010 18:18:57 GMT -6
My favorite novel, "Brave New World" was written by a man named Aldous Huxley. I remember reading that he has done several experiments and research into Psychedelic drugs, including LSD, and that he too was very interested in the effects of them on the human psyche. Here's a video I found of him. I haven't watched it yet because I have to go to work... www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/video/2008/wallace/huxley_aldous.html
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Post by halfsack13 on Jan 4, 2011 12:23:23 GMT -6
I have never used drugs so I don't have any experience with them, but this story is kind of interesting. If psychedelic drugs are capable of altering consciousness, or the mind's thought processes, then could they somehow increase a person's psychic abilities? Is it possible that some of the "hallucinations" that people see are actually different realities? I started studying psychology at college because of the weird psychic abilities that I developed after my "too close encounter" and I am fascinated by how the brain works. What is really amazing is that we know so little about it. Scientists say that we only use about 10% of our brain-power...what would happen if the other 90% suddenly kicked in? the Native Americans of the western part of the US , pretty much believed exactly what you have just described. Ive never taken psychedelics myself, but I have known a few people who have. They all struck me as more intelligent and have a whole new insight on things that they didn't have before. But on the other hand you do run the chances of having a "bad trip" and never quit coming back.
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Post by skywalker on Jan 5, 2011 12:36:12 GMT -6
This is a very interesting topic. I am going to have to do some more research into this when I get more time. (I don't mean like "hands-on" research, but like reading and stuff.) It would be interesting to know exactly what our minds are capable of with a little bit of stimulation. I remember the CIA was doing experiments in this same subject back in the 60's and 70's.
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Post by bewildered on Jan 5, 2011 16:20:07 GMT -6
The only value, if any, of such drugs is to "introduce" the conscious to the schema of altered states that might have been inaccessible before due to a lack of awareness. Beyond such an introduction, their value assumes the same importance as any other device people use to "escape reality" by altering the cognitive function of the conscious to a degree that inevitably has consequences to overall function and stability. In other words: once as an eye-opener is fine, more than once is far too much. In this respect, there is no difference at all between alcohol use, hallucinogenics, excessive daydreaming, and wishful thinking. We should keep in mind (pun intended ) that there is a point to the structure and function of the conscious and what it perceives as "reality" and identity. These are crucial to functioning in what Carlos Castaneda calls the "tonal" - reality according to the perceptions and programs of the conscious. It is a place where time is linear, space separates objects, and identity forms the basis of cognitive function. Because the basis of the tonal is illusory - an artifact of perception, if you will - time, space, and identity all mean different things to different people at different times, for our perception of them is the basis of our experience. All three are fluid and flexible, for they exist and are measured by the conscious. They are subject to the influence of internal conscious stimuli. The subject is hopelessly complicated. I could write reams on how I arrived where I am now, and essentially say nothing at all in the process. The perceptions of the conscious loop endlessly, going round and round...injecting new life into the proverb "there is nothing new under the sun." In a nutshell, the conscious is not the mind...rather, it is a construct of the mind. It is a series of perceptual programs intended to function in and with the "tonal." It might help if I used an illustration that most will be familiar with: the computer. In some respects, the computer is a primitive model of the mind reflected in the tonal. The hardware inside the case represents the brain and all its myriad components. The BIOS is an outgrowth of DNA coding (the chipset), which determines what form the Operating System (OS) can take. Consider the OS to be the mind...or what most erroneously call the subconscious. Organizational protocols defined by the OS forms the cognitive basis from which the conscious forms and functions. What we think of as the conscious, then, is a suite of programs running within the OS. It's a construct of the Operating System...what I call the "mind." That's terribly simplified and and has some flaws, but I feel it communicates the basis well enough. People spend their time within the conscious loop, forming perceptions based upon flawed premises that only "hold water" within their own subjective, internal universe...a universe that occasionally exchanges matter with the universes of others. The premises are flawed because they are generated by the construct (the creation) using a process of internalization: that characteristic of the brain to extrapolate data it does not otherwise perceive in the environment. In other words, it's ad-libbed. It's easy to see, then, that one cannot "develop psychic abilities" in any objective sense because the premise itself is flawed to begin with. It's a product of the tonal loop, something that exists in the realm of time, space, and identity. Ever try driving to the planet Jupiter? It's an awfully long drive. The best that we can do is imagine that we drove there...and depending on the person and the degree of their intentionality, we can convince the conscious that it "happened." In the absence of intentionality, we are subject to the "unseen" influence of the mind on the conscious construct, because we associate the construct with self...itself another flawed premise. Hopefully, the loop is becoming evident now. It really is quite complicated, but far from impossible to understand. Children have an easier time with it than adults do. A child can assume another "identity" easily, because they understand that "me" exists separate from considerations of identity. Drugs are not necessary at all to alter the cognitive process...for in truth, people flow between varied states of altered perception constantly. They also do not make "developing psychic abilities" possible because they do not alter the premises of perception...they only bring direct experience of other states to the attention of the conscious construct. They do not assign meaning to what is otherwise gibberish to the conscious. It is gibberish because it was never meant to function in that capacity to begin with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2011 16:51:22 GMT -6
Hugsss to Bewildered because I'm so happy to see him I always look forward to your posts
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Post by paulette on Jan 5, 2011 17:44:10 GMT -6
Short reply to a very complex topic.
First off, those who have read my visitation posts on the "other forums" know that I spoke clearly that I was under the influence of peyote when whatever it was made its presence known and landed near us. I believe that that is why it happened. There were stoned and un-stoned witnesses present and we all agreed that something profoundly off-the-map happened to us that night. I have been haunted by the whole event and was happy to write about it and take another look at it from the viewpoint of old and straight.
Second - it was not my first experience, nor second nor third. However there did come a time when such experiments in alteration in my mind seemed undesirable and I stopped. I am sure I am a different person than I would have been. For one reason - I wouldn't have survived my young adulthood. Taking peyote or acid allowed me to realize completely that I was part of everything. I did not feel that way usually. I remember holding my hand up next to a cactus and I could "see" the vibrational energy and also the three dimensional quality of the "solids" that made both of us up. I could see that we were the same star dust - deeply related as earth energy beings. I would return from such an experience feeling restored and in touch and then gradually I would drift out of phase again and have to renew my understanding. There were real world reasons for my lack of confidence in my place in the world. My childhood although middle class and not lacking in material goods was colored by alcoholism, dislocation, and later by my being bullied for being too smart and not fitting into the small Texas town my parents moved to. I always wandered around and felt communicated with by creatures, by the ocean....
Many many paranormal things happened while stoned. The UFO big event was perhaps the most dramatic but there were others that vied in intensity and significance.
A few paranormal things have happened since but I am no longer in such frank need of reassurance. I have for sure talked to dead friends and even bought specific things they required my credit card for to make a Xmas present for a particular relative. I have gone and checked on someone else's (newly dead someone else's) children and sure enough things were not going well and I intervened and contacted someone. That was as a result of getting a "telephone call" in the middle of the night from my dead friend.
I think that psychotrophic substances create different brain wiring - soft ware if you like. I found "what the bleep do we know" to propose this in a meaningful to me way.
My husband DEPENDS on the fact that I negotiate with the weather when we go on a rock hunting trip and that it rains all around us and then behind us as we leave. I just know that I can do this in a small way. Maybe not always and I can't stop floods or huge weather systems. And I don't think we should meddle more than a slight alteration in the local afternoon events. The Butterfly effect and all...
One more comment. There are many kinds of magic mushrooms - some are in the Amanita family. Yes shamans have used them but it is a very serious undertaking because some have more of the inherently poisonous alkaloids that others. Forget about peeling them, or drying them, or any other short cut. The psilocybe varieties also come in different degrees of potency and they are very difficult to id when fresh and impossible when dried (for the average person - a lab would study the minute differences in the spore shapes and arrangements). Some one can eat a handful and have a peaceful afternoon - some might take you to the edge and beyond of comfort as you confront mortality, your past, your future, etc. Just a friendly word of advice. Here in Canada teens have died from eating the wrong Amanita and have come to accidents and grief eating the right psilocybe. It's not like drinking a beer or two!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2011 18:33:35 GMT -6
I can empathize with all of that paulette ~hugs~. So you were stoned when you had your encounter? Wow. Thanks for sharing that, I had no idea. Interesting... Bewildered, Good to see you again. Your computer reference is very interesting I think. The mind is the Operating System. I never thought about it in this way before. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by bewildered on Jan 5, 2011 19:25:31 GMT -6
Hiya Jo...good to "see" you too, as it were. paulette: Interesting experiences. I've never experienced hallucinogenics such as LSD, peyote, nor mushrooms (a dangerous proposition, for as you note, some fungi are rather lethal) myself, though I have been in the vicinity of those who have "tripped" on them. My only experience with a related substance (psychoactive in more subtle ways) was marijuana and hashish consumption in my late teens. This was mostly with hashish as I lived in Europe during most of this time, and hash was more easily obtainable than marijuana was. When I returned stateside in 1986, I found hash was very rare, and marijuana more common. The first effect the usage had on me was to alter my perception of time and space. The second effect the usage had upon me was to blow the doors "wide open" to something I had already been experiencing since the days of my youth...visions. The writing and music I produced during that time was prolific. I discovered that, when it pertained to certain people I shared a certain sympathetic connection with, I was able to objectively interact with them regardless of time and space. This would occur regardless of whether I was "high" or not, and one such instance that stands out occurred in the rather innocuous setting of my oldest sister's bedroom one evening. At that time, both she and my older sister (I have three: two older and one younger) were playing around with Ouija boards. Not uncommon for teenage kids at that time spellbound by movies such as The Exorcist. I would sometimes sit and watch them...and eventually I became aware of what was going on. I could see it quite clearly. Autonomous muscle twitching essentially guided the planchette across the board...and it seemed to conform to obvious (or not so obvious) cues from the minds of my sisters. Often, it was my older sister doing the guidance. She was the "dominant" one in the scenario. To state that I was "reading their minds" is not accurate, and a misnomer. Rather, I was plugged in to the event: viewing it, sensing it, and feeling it. It was my experience. That is the closest language can come to touching upon the essence of what was taking place. That also describes the visions that grip me as well. I feel there is little difference between my visions, "telepathy," and so-called remote viewing. Silly labels that describe things distorted by the conscious perception of a tonal reality. One evening, it fell into place as I sat there with them for close to two hours (my perception of time is fluid and is subject to the influence of my focus, so it could been longer, or less). It would be the last time I would sit there and watch. At some point, I began to know exactly where the planchette would go on the board, and what it would say before it ever finished building statements. I remained silent, however, because to speak about it would in effect stop what was taking place. There came a time when I felt that it was "over," so I simply got up and left. I left those things behind when I enlisted in the U.S. military. In the era following the Vietnam War and leading up to the first Gulf War (I enlisted in 1989), the military implemented a rigorous anti-drug stance that featured very dire consequences for those violated it. Urine tests and blood tests were commonplace, random, and required of all personnel. It was not an option...nothing is when you are in the military. It was during this time that I started to discover the nature of my mind, the relationship of my conscious to it, and the empowering experience of action. In the wake of having my eyes opened more fully to altered states, I realized that artificial aids (such as drugs) were not needed at all. In fact, those aids end up becoming more of a liability than an asset, as biochemistry is altered to a degree that begins to unravel those inherent safeguards that are necessary for survival. Our ability to function in the tonal begins to become impaired as the conscious construct is interfered with in a decidedly unhealthy fashion. That is, after all, the source of what our societies label as "mental illness."
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CitizenK
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I'm Back Guys!!! I've missed you so much!!!
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Post by CitizenK on Jan 5, 2011 23:31:23 GMT -6
I agree with what Bewildered has to say ,mainly because it 'makes sense' to me but also because of my past experiences with hallucinogenics and then my study of the mind,altered consciousness,meditation,etc. I have learned that the pineal gland in the center of our brain (which is where our third eye is) releases a chemical when we meditate or use these particular class of drugs , the chemical is known as DMT. I have provided a link and info to this as well as others. Please read further info at the link if interested in what all the pineal gland entails for us. photonichuman.50megs.com/whats_new_1.htmlInternal Light: the Luminous Interior DMT & the Pineal Gland The Biology of the Inner Light Meditation evokes pineal DMT release through EM vibrations. Visionary experience with symbolic or religious content gives way to dazzling light of illumination, reported in eastern and western religions. Meditation modulates pineal activity, eliciting a standing wave through resonance effects that coordinates other brain centers with both chemicals and electromagnetism. Resonance is induced in the pineal gland using electric, magnetic, or sound energy, resynchronizing both hemispheres of the brain, resulting in a chain of synergetic harmony that releases DMT, an endogenous psychedelic. The pineal contains high levels of enzymes and building-blocks for DMT, which may be secreted when inhibitory processes cease blocking its production with other chemicals, such as beta-carbolines which magnify and prolong DMT effects. DMT is the source of visionary Light in transpersonal experiences. Its primary source, the pineal, has traditionally been referred to as the Third Eye. Curiously, this gland is light sensitive and actually has a lens, cornea, and retina. DMT production is particularly stimulated in the extraordinary conditions of birth, sexual ecstasy, childbirth, extreme physical stress, near-death, psychosis, and physical death, as well as meditation. Pineal DMT may also play a significant role in dream consciousness. Meditative techniques using sound, sight, or awareness may generate particular wave patterns whose fields induce resonance in the brain. Millennia of human trial and error have determined that certain ‘sacred’ worlds, visual images, and mental exercises exert uniquely desired effects, causing multiple systems to vibrate and pulse at certain frequencies. When our minds and bodies resonate with these spiritual exercises the pineal begins to ‘vibrate’ at frequencies that weaken its multiple barriers to DMT formation and release. The mindbody is electronic, but it is rooted in the luminosity of its invisible ground. Living systems are very sensitive to tiny energy fields and resonance phenomena, both locally and at a distance. They allow the cells of the body to work together instantaneously and symphonically. All biological processes are a function of electromagnetic field interactions. EM fields are the connecting link between the world of form and resonant patterns. EM fields embody or store gestalts, patterns of information. Biochemical action and bioelectronic action meet at the quantum-junction. We can return to Nature and our nature, collectively preparing a paradigm shift for a new shared reality and trajectory of physical, emotional, cognitive and spiritual coherence. The silent frictionless flow of living intelligence is beyond words and conceptual constructs. We are a process of recursive self-generation. This continuum, which is our ground state or creative Source, is directly discoverable in the immediacy of the emergent embodied moment, in the living Light that generates our Being. Here's a wikipedia explanation that covers a host of info. (including MKULTRA) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelics,_dissociatives_and_deliriants
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Jan 12, 2011 11:47:27 GMT -6
So if what I am gathering from some of the above comments is correct, hallucinagenic drugs do seem to be able to stimulate or enhance certain psychic abilities by releasing, or causing the release of, chemicals that stimulate certain brain functions. The psychic abilities have to already be there though, either dormant or accessable to a lesser extent. Is that correct or am I reading something wrong?
I know that the CIA was doing extensive testing in these areas back in the 1960's and 70's with MKUltra and several other related clandestine projects. It's too bad they will never tell us what they discovered. I am sure it would make for some very interesting reading.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 14:21:06 GMT -6
American Indians used a couple of hallucinogenics to help them with visions as well as fasting and using sweat lodges. That can put a person very close to death actually. In fact there was an article on some people using sweat lodges and dying: For that article: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/22/james-ray-sweat-lodge-deathEspecially now..there are SO many people hunting answers...so many people trying to have visions, seeking out energy places, more than ever before. There was a time when people were content to live their lives, raise their children and own 2.5 cars and a mortgage. That's just no longer the case. The contentment isn't there..we're actively hunting answers to impossible questions only hinted at by UFO's and odd happenings and atom smashers and angels and this amazing expansive universe..wow..the list goes on. We DO live in interesting times where people don't want limits any more, or government BS...they want true answers. No wonder to me that people would try all sorts of substances as a short cut. I exist with this feeling of 'excitement' almost every day..will today be the day. The day for what? Uh....I dunno...SOMETHING. How many of you share that? ;D
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Post by bewildered on Jan 12, 2011 15:03:06 GMT -6
So if what I am gathering from some of the above comments is correct, hallucinagenic drugs do seem to be able to stimulate or enhance certain psychic abilities by releasing, or causing the release of, chemicals that stimulate certain brain functions. The psychic abilities have to already be there though, either dormant or accessable to a lesser extent. Is that correct or am I reading something wrong? I know that the CIA was doing extensive testing in these areas back in the 1960's and 70's with MKUltra and several other related clandestine projects. It's too bad they will never tell us what they discovered. I am sure it would make for some very interesting reading. MK-Ultra was an experiment in mind control spearheaded by the CIA. Documentation regarding this crime is available via the Freedom of Information Act, which was how the concrete reality of MK-Ultra came to light in the first place. It's a crime similar to the likes of the Tuskegee Experiment, where a group of impoverished African American men were infected with Syphilis in order to study the effects of the untreated disease in humans. They never informed the subjects of what they were doing. MK-Ultra was similar in that it involved many unwitting subjects who had no idea of what was happening to them. They were given doses of LSD and other drugs without their express permission nor knowledge. There is no objective, causal link established between the activity of "psychic abilities" and the use of hallucinogenic drugs. The only objective effect observed has been an increased awareness of altered states of consciousness, which in itself doesn't "cause" anyone to employ "psychic abilities." The other observable effect these drugs have on subjects is the warping effect they have on a person's perception of reality...the subjective bleeds through to the senses. Hallucinations are commonplace.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 18:24:45 GMT -6
I had a cousin who was just a living doll. Tommy was one of those sorts who sets every teenage girl within his sphere of influence a drool. Smart..A student..and just movie star cute. Tommy joined the service after school..he wanted to further his education that way and make some college moves. Tommy volunteered for a research project and his career choices became rather narrow. The last time I saw Tommy he was an unwashed, rake thin, paranoid/schizophrenic who jumped over shadows and tried to knife bushes and shadows thinking they were after him. He was the joke of main street for awhile before he got so bad they had to place him somewhere for his own safety. Family didn't know where that was. If someone holds out a blue pill and a red pill..it's probably not for a trip to the Matrix
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Post by paulette on Jan 12, 2011 21:54:29 GMT -6
Jokelly -I am so sorry to read your post. The "theys" in your story sound totally sinister. You are completely out of touch? Family as well?
I will say this. Hallucinogens and marijuana use can push a susceptible person into a psychotic state. However some people drift over this line without any foreign substances. Unfortunately, schizophrenia often kicks in during late adolescence - when the person is facing the major life challenge of taking care of him or herself without supervision. Marijuana is now very very strong due to consumer pressure and is lacking a plant hormone that has anti-anxiety properties. Heavy tokers can become sleepless and anxious and worse as their functioning in our complex world deteriorates. The rave drug X has bad reviews as well - people experience flash-backs and unusual thinking for months afterward and it is a waiting game to see if they recover uneventfully. These of course are not "research drugs". God knows (maybe) what they might be.
I think that use of psychotrophics is not unlike what happened to the guy in Matrix who discovered that everything he had accepted as "normal" was actually an illusion. The Buddhists would call this Maya - that we create a complicated story about what is happening and what is good and bad. Just as an example, I have communicated with both plants and animals when stoned. But I manage to convince myself (these days) that its alright to eat them. I mean, we have to eat something and nothing wants to have its life ended or its seeds harvested and eaten without replenishing the mother plant. But I eat things with faces. If I had to walk over to the fence where I had been scratching some being's ears and offering it an apple and then one day bash its brains out - I don't know that I could. But that is the truth of being an omnivore and a disconnected one at that. (Lots of people stopped eating meat after they got stoned).
Venturing into unknown mental states can be risky. Maybe not venturing has its own quieter risks. I am not for or against personal experimentation. For the record, people have done the nastiest things in history while under the influence of alcohol. But somehow we live with it and condone it (BC Canada just voted in the most restrictive drinking driving laws in this country - so maybe the tide is turning). I like to have a couple of glasses of wine with friends over a leisurely dinner. I don't mind a beer and a sandwich out in the middle of nowhere exploring. It's a personal choice thing.
But back to your cousin - I hope he finds his way through and that you can re-unite with him (if you want to.)
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Post by skywalker on Jan 17, 2011 18:10:25 GMT -6
MK-Ultra was an experiment in mind control spearheaded by the CIA. Documentation regarding this crime is available via the Freedom of Information Act, which was how the concrete reality of MK-Ultra came to light in the first place. It's a crime similar to the likes of the Tuskegee Experiment, where a group of impoverished African American men were infected with Syphilis in order to study the effects of the untreated disease in humans. They never informed the subjects of what they were doing. MK-Ultra was similar in that it involved many unwitting subjects who had no idea of what was happening to them. They were given doses of LSD and other drugs without their express permission nor knowledge. There is no objective, causal link established between the activity of "psychic abilities" and the use of hallucinogenic drugs. The only objective effect observed has been an increased awareness of altered states of consciousness, which in itself doesn't "cause" anyone to employ "psychic abilities." The other observable effect these drugs have on subjects is the warping effect they have on a person's perception of reality...the subjective bleeds through to the senses. Hallucinations are commonplace. You won't get any argument from me when it comes to how horrible the MK-Ultra experiments were. They were both a tragedy and a travesty committed against unsuspecting American citizens. People died as a result. And that was just one of many covert "black" projects that the CIA was involved with. There were others, such as MK-Hilltop, bluebird, blackbird, artichoke, and many more that we don't even know about that were probably just as bad, or worse. In addition to those were other experiments, like the one you mentioned in Tuskegee, or the radiation experiments where innocent people were injected with Plutonium just to see how long it would take to kill them. In another one the government gave pregnant women a radioactive "cocktail" to drink to see how the radiation would effect the unborn babies. The things that our government has done to unsuspecting civilians is appalling. They have violated people's civil, constitutional and human rights all in the name of "national security." They treat people like Guinea pigs just to be used and abused and then casually discarded. There is no justification for that. I also want to say that I am not encouraging or condoning the use of drugs. I have never used them myself, but I have seen other people's lives destroyed because of them. My younger brother is in prison right now because of drugs, and his four month old baby girl is going to grow up without a daddy because he couldn't resist getting some artificial "high." There is no justification for that either. There are really two reasons why I am interested in this thread. One is because I recently investigated a case that was supposedly an "alien abduction" but turned out to be nothing more than a case of drug addiction. For the past several weeks I have been doing research on different types of drugs, especially hallucinogens, and the effects they may have on people. I am trying to determine exactly what it is that causes hallucinations to occur, and why when under the influence of such drugs is the mind so incapable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality. I am beginning to understand it a little, and something that you said helped quite a bit. Normally we get our sensory information from our outside senses...taste, touch, sight, etc...and this is what helps to form our sense of consciousness. As soon as those senses are categorized by the brain they become memories, albeit recent ones. Under the influence of narcotics, especially hallucinogens, the brain has a hard time distinguishing between recent memories derived from the senses, and older, possibly even imaginary memories, that have been stored and processed long ago. The introduction of a drug into the brain is like introducing a virus into a computer...it effects the ability to correctly process information. This inability to function properly will continue until the drug, or the virus, is removed. Even afterwards there may be lasting ill effects because of the reprogramming that occurred during the infection and removal process. The other reason why I am interested in the topic of this thread is because I am interested in discovering what it is that causes "psychic abilities" to occur. I disagree when you say that people can not "develop" psychic abilities. This is exactly what happened to me following the abduction experience that I had back in 1988. Before then I had no psychic abilities at all that I was aware of, then immediately afterwards I suddenly started having dreams, premonitions and visions of the future, some of which came true exactly the way that I had foreseen them occurring. In some cases there was a period of only a a few minutes between the time of the vision and the time the incident actually occurred. This is not something that only happened once or twice, but has been happening repeatedly ever since. Something had to cause these weird abilities to appear. If these hallucinogen drugs can make people more aware of alternative consciousnesses, then it is possible they could also make people aware of latent psychic abilities that they did not even know they possessed. These drugs are chemicals, much like the hormones that affect the development and function of certain parts of the body, so it is possible that they could develop or stimulate parts of the brain that people normally do not use. Anything is possible. I am not suggesting that people should rush out and start experimenting with different types of narcotics in order to try to make themselves psychic, because they definitely should not. Drugs inarguably are dangerous. They can kill, they can warp people's minds, and they can destroy lives. I am just curious to hear about other people's ideas and experiences because I think it is an interesting concept, and it is a topic I have never seen discussed before.
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CitizenK
Full Member
I'm Back Guys!!! I've missed you so much!!!
Posts: 562
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Post by CitizenK on Jan 17, 2011 23:48:18 GMT -6
All good points ,Sky. I would also like to point out that natural herbs can be just as dangerous if not used correctly or even if used by someone who has an underlying problem already. Whether it be a mental disorder or their heart, etc. it can be debilitating, maddening, or even deadly to the individual. So everyone should be careful and take even the herbs seriously. I also agree that this is a subject of interest that is rarely discussed unless by someone of bias on either side. SO open discussions here are useful and interesting for many of us. Thank you for broaching the subject at hand.
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Post by skywalker on Feb 18, 2011 23:21:55 GMT -6
Short reply to a very complex topic. First off, those who have read my visitation posts on the "other forums" know that I spoke clearly that I was under the influence of peyote when whatever it was made its presence known and landed near us. I believe that that is why it happened. There were stoned and un-stoned witnesses present and we all agreed that something profoundly off-the-map happened to us that night. I have been haunted by the whole event and was happy to write about it and take another look at it from the viewpoint of old and straight. Hi, Paulette. I was just curious to know why you think that the peyote may have had something to do with the weird event happening? How do you think it could have caused it?
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Post by paulette on Feb 18, 2011 23:32:19 GMT -6
I was fearless. And I am at times psychic in some ways and I believe that the substance amplified my "call". I was absolutely clear when I said, "Come on then!" that I was inviting contact. I had not done that before - in fact I had avoided other late night experiments with people who went to an isolated part of the beach and tried to "call them down"(when I was a teenager). Because I think (now) that I had had contact as a child and hadn't liked it I did not want to be responsible for encouraging anything like that. It didn't sound fun at all!
But the night of the happening - it was high energy outside, swoops of wind coming from dry thunderheads. I was in a field of hay in seed head and they rattled and rubbed against each other and me. I was love with my life and the universe and figured I could handle ANYTHING.
Ha! That turned out to not be true. I did give it my best shot however.
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Post by lois on Feb 18, 2011 23:39:30 GMT -6
The Bible says in the last days people will be running to and fro looking for answers, which will not come .. not till they see the son of man come down from heaven..
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