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Post by ufo4peace on May 30, 2012 21:44:33 GMT -6
Uploaded by WarCrime911 on Dec 23, 2010 "The CIA is a state-sponsored terrorists association. You don't look at people as human beings. They are nothing but pieces on the chessboard." -- Verne Lyon, former CIA agent in revealing documentary "Secrets of the CIA"
Secrets of the CIA is a revealing 45-minute Turner Home Entertainment documentary available for free viewing at the link below. In this riveting exposé, five former CIA agents describe how their initial pride and enthusiasm at serving their nation turned to anguish and remorse, as they realized that they were actually subverting democracy and killing innocent civilians all in the name "national security" and promoting foreign policy agendas.
A Notre Dame football star, an aerospace engineering senior at Iowa State, an attractive high school graduate, a young patriot, and an Olympic shooting champion all were recruited by the CIA at a young age. These five brave individuals risk retaliation in revealing the story of their gradual disillusionment and finally defection from the CIA, as they eventually became convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were serving neither democracy, nor the people of their country.
The Olympic shooting champion describes being put in charge of overthrowing the democratically elected government of Guatemala. The patriot relates his deep remorse for his direct responsibility in the deaths of numerous innocent people for which he can never make amends. The pretty high school graduate describes how her initial addiction to power and intrigue turned to disgust and horror. This powerful documentary is a rare and remarkable look at the results of unbridled secrecy and the lengths to which some elements in government will go to achieve questionable foreign policy goals.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 30, 2012 21:46:59 GMT -6
Uploaded by Wrayer on Sep 30, 2006
It aired on PBS in 1987 and is as good as anything on the tape (must see). Moyers is a very respected TV journalist who also worked for Lyndon B. Johnson and has a very professional approach. He interviews many different people involved with the CIA and other government agencies. His documentary gives quite an overview of what has actually happened in the last 50 years regarding the CIA and the cold war (including Iran, Guatamala, Cuba, Viet Nam and Chile). He features such people as Ralph McGeehee and Phil Retinger (both former CIA agents), Rear Admiral Gene La Rocque (Ret. U.S.N.), Theodore Bissell (active in the CIA at the time), Sen. Frank Church and many others. Moyers is so very credible. The full video "The Secret Government" is 90 minutes - this segment is edited by Frank Dorrel to 20 minutes
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Post by skywalker on May 31, 2012 17:10:18 GMT -6
I'm glad to see that some people are starting to wake up and see what is really going on in this country. The CIA (and the rest of the government) have been out of control for a long time. Nobody wants to stand up for what is right though because they all seem to be addicted to the power, or maybe because they just don't want to accept that what is happening is really happening. At least this is a step in the right direction.
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Post by randy on Jun 3, 2012 1:22:54 GMT -6
It is a real world folks. Much is going on that is unpleasant to think about but it is reality. Having read the top secret police only files my father brought home when he was working in investigations, I know that the public is conned into thinking all is a pink chiffon candy land in some cases reality is 180 degrees from what the general public believes I have found people are so brain washed in some things it is impossible to explain reality to them. They cant accept it. All major powers have their secret agents. If we stop using ours they wont stop using theirs. Our history is full of neat things like Pearl Harbor, the Battle of the Bulge, the North Korean invasion of South Korea, Tet etc that caught us by surprize. We only have to lose one major war to be in a world of hurt. To preserve our way of life our society is a valid reason to have the CIA. We have the right to exist as a free people in the world. Like it or not we are the beacon of freedom in a corrupt world. I apologize to no one for being an American. Obama does not apologize for me
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 1:43:11 GMT -6
It is a real world folks. Much is going on that is unpleasant to think about but it is reality. Having read the top secret police only files my father brought home when he was working in investigations, I know that the public is conned into thinking all is a pink chiffon candy land in some cases reality is 180 degrees from what the general public believes I have found people are so brain washed in some things it is impossible to explain reality to them. They cant accept it. All major powers have their secret agents. If we stop using ours they wont stop using theirs. Our history is full of neat things like Pearl Harbor, the Battle of the Bulge, the North Korean invasion of South Korea, Tet etc that caught us by surprize. We only have to lose one major war to be in a world of hurt. To preserve our way of life our society is a valid reason to have the CIA. We have the right to exist as a free people in the world. Like it or not we are the beacon of freedom in a corrupt world. I apologize to no one for being an American. Obama does not apologize for me Here here, give the man a cigar! ~hugz Randy~
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Post by ufo4peace on Jun 3, 2012 5:00:22 GMT -6
To preserve our way of life our society is a valid reason to have the CIA. You mean our pig way of life. No surprise you're defending the CIA. Alot of what you post doesn't seem very believable. Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 11:56:54 GMT -6
I didn't necessarily take what randy said as "defending the cia". Any thing any where can be cut and pasted to elicit a certain response. What I will defend is our right to try and discover information that can prevent life loss, economic loss, and yes, I'll even throw prevent abductions in there. Any kind of abduction . I'm sure there are a lot of people who have seen and been part of things that seem atrocious to me, and it took a long time for me to see that the offensive position is the first step in being the best defender. I'm also pretty sure that these same people, if still involved, have many nights without much sleep (for several reasons), and struggle to have quality time with people who can remind them what love is. As for recruiting people. . . And brainwashing? Isn't that only temporary and causes bigger problems later? I do think money and power can corrupt, don't get me wrong. But there has been enough publicity in recent years on the cia that people should know what they are getting into. If they want to make changes, real changes, those changes have to be done on the inside, from the inside. If they are a law unto themselves it's going to take someone with high morals looking at the whole picture that already has a piece of that power. On the other hand, for example. What if bin laden had been assassinated 15 yrs. ago? What would the american public have perceived of that then? Just like another thread here on teor that talks about a computer virus and the threat of nuclear war involving what was once a great world power. Persia. No one knows exactly what is going on, but our best bet, and I mean our, is to look at what has happened in the past and act accordingly. last, but not least. "Whistleblowing" has its place. I'm thankful for that "freedom" also and know that more often that it is a huge risk, and not a life-saver like hollywood would portray it. (I can't wait to see how my words are soon twisted )
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Jun 3, 2012 12:28:30 GMT -6
The CIA has a useful job to do, just like the military and other intelligence and government agencies do. Unfortunately every now and then they go way over the line with some of the things they do. Things like assassinations, creating biological weapons or using unwitting innocent civilians as Guinea pigs in life threatening experiments. Maybe the political leaders who control the government or the agency are able to justify doing those things but that doesn't mean they should be done. Remember that the Nazi government in Germany was able to justify murdering 6 million people just because they were Jewish. Maybe the political leaders thought it was a good idea but I'm sure the Jews didn't think so...and probably a majority of the people would have sided with the Jews if they had known what is going on.
What political leaders need to understand, and what they often seem to forget, is that the country is not just the government. The country is made up of all of the people who live in it and they all have a right to be treated with decency and respect...not just used and abused and thrown away like broken tools or dead lab rats in a science lab.
Our government is supposed to be "of the people, by the people and for the people." We need to get the people involved in making more of the decisions in this country so that the fate of millions is not put just in the hands of a few who may not have the people's best interests at heart. We need more openness in the government so that the people can know what is going on and decide whether or not they want the government to be doing something.
If the government wants to develop nuclear or biological weapons that could potentially wipe out all of the life on the planet than they should tell the people what they want to do and why and ask them if they are in favor of it. If it really is a beneficial thing to do than the government should be able to convince the majority of the people it is the right thing to do...not by lying and deceiving them but by telling the truth and presenting the facts. The majority of the people will be able to make the right decision if they know the facts. The problem is that there are so many lies being told that nobody, and this often includes the leaders of the government, really knows what is going on. This, unfortunately is why whistle blowers are often necessary...so that people will know the truth about what is going on in their country.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 21:47:53 GMT -6
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Post by skywalker on Jun 3, 2012 22:04:46 GMT -6
Sometimes it seems they think they are the government. That's the problem. They do things sometimes that they definitely should not be doing...and they know they shouldn't be doing...like the MkUltra experiments where they were using unsuspecting civilians as Guinea pigs in all sorts of drug related mind control experiments. It is estimated that thousands of people were effected by it and several of them died as a result of what was done to them. Unfortunately, when people found out about it and started raising an uproar the CIA covered it all up. Congress demanded that the CIA turn over all the documents related to the program but instead the CIA tried to destroy them all so nobody would ever know exactly what was being done. With no evidence to prosecute them the people responsible for the program got away with it.
If the CIA has a program that Congress doesn't know about, and they refuse to tell Congress about it when they find out that something is going on, than the CIA is kind of operating like a separate government within a government. This is the type of thing we need the whistleblowers for. They shouldn't be doing stuff like that.
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Post by randy on Jun 4, 2012 0:14:59 GMT -6
At one time FDR was considered not trustworthy enough to know that we had a working enigma code machine and were reading some of the axis codes. My blood chills at the thought of giving some of our spy program data to our crop of politicians in DC. trusting Maxine Walters with the names of deep agents in the Chinese military is effectively killing such agents. There is an applicable say know they self and know thy enemy. To quote the movie where the navy intelligence officer said "You mean the entire Japanese fleet could be rounding Diamond Head and you would not know about it?" we were extremely igannant of Japans potential and plans. We paid the price of igannance. Knowing our enemies also helps preserve the peace. Taken at face value a move by China could indicate war but inside information explains it as not theatening In such a case we did not ring the red phones and China did not respond in kind. Peace was preserved because we knew what was real. igannance is paid for in blood at times. It takes time to place deep agents and to preserve the lives of these folk we cant hand out their names to every political hack in Washington Police forces in the US have deep agents embedded in criminal gangs. Should this data be handed out to the media? Faced with japan as an enemy we had virtually no inside agents while Russia did have such agents as they had adopted spying as a realistic world view of things. Russia knew of the Pearl harbor attack and said nothing as it would keep Japan occupied and thus not a threat to Russias rear recall the Pearl Harbor attack force encountered a Russian ship on the way to Pearl Harbor. Russia was watching. Russia had agents in Hitlers military while we had none. Spying and manipulation preserves the peace and maintains the status quo. It is needed for survival in a real world. Talking to a woman from the middle east she said that Americans live in a false pink chiffon world and the real world is not nice and safe and every day she wakes up not knowing if she will live to eat dinner at night. The CIA preserves the peace and our society and that is reality.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 0:52:12 GMT -6
Good discussion going on here. JC, Morgan, loved both of your posts. I'll try not to twist your words JC... I think I properly understood you... this time... ~hugz~ ;D
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Post by ufo4peace on Jun 4, 2012 1:06:32 GMT -6
Secrecy, as much as our system values it along with the term national security, is really not needed. Nationalistic ideals are for the most part a romantic fallacy. What you have today is beurocratic institutions that instead of protecting people from any real threats are looking for threats. This would include the average citizen who seems to be a threat to the monster of our own creation. The CIA, FBI, NSA, The Department Of Homeland Security, the military, and powerful defense contractors.
I'm a firm believer in being as transparent as possible. Not just a few people who think can only handle the truth and know what's best for you and I.
If some UFO's are ET then the government for the people by the people should spill the beans. Why hide what is real? Is the planet earth like a modern Jonestown colony wanting its followers to believe in a delusion because what's out there may be viewed as frightening? If modern civilzation has evolved to the point where it can understand what ETI (extraterrestrial intelligence) are then it should be embraced even if the ET's are keeping their distance.
All people on this planet, even the countries we don't agree with, should have access to the technology we enjoy and the potential of ET-tech.
We need to see ourselves more as a planetary species or Earthlings then Russians, Americans, or Chinese. We need to put an end to certain people on this planet being neglected and treated as lesser people because of patriotic duties or nationalistic ideals as the world becomes more and more globalized and distance is no longer a factor.
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Post by randy on Jun 4, 2012 1:28:41 GMT -6
For what ever reasons parts of the world are lacking in progress and in simple basic necessities. Why is open to debate and such debate get emotional easily. Africa despite its huge size and resources is still very primative and lacking in progress. the gap between such populations and the US is large. having said that the US is where it is due to its form of govt and its culture which values work and education among other things. Africa produces less than 100 PHD candidates a year while countries such as China produce huge numbers of people achieving that level of education Does China owe an obligation to Africa and other countries living in poverty The Us is the land where I was born and grew up and found my wife. My parents are buried here as I will be. My children are raising my grand children here. This is my country and as such nationaism is more than an idea to me. It is a way of life and our culture that is worth fighting for if need be. Working together with other countries is fine but not at the expense of losing self identity as an American. having a strong self identity was a huge help in resisting the greys as a kid. With out a strong self identity you have no basis on which to mount a resistance to them
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 1:45:07 GMT -6
Ahh the question that begs for an answer..is. Since they are in the business of lies..would they EVER tell us the truth??
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 2:47:52 GMT -6
...We need to put an end to certain people on this planet being neglected and treated as lesser people... You mean like women UFO4peace? Methinks you ought to practice what you preach my dear.
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Post by ufo4peace on Jun 5, 2012 11:16:42 GMT -6
There's one way you can completely be rid of secrecy.
A united globalized government and technology proliferation.
A lot of weapons we use in modern warfare are archaic and there is also a lot of collateral damage/reprocussions for our violent actions.
In fact if you notice in the 21st century the internet and social media seem to be more effective in instigating regime change than using military superiority and occupying foreign land.
As people aroud the world see how technology is evolving and become part of a global village there is more incentive for them to mobolize and act in instigating change in their own government.
Certian things need to happen in order to get rid or wars and a beurocracy of secrecy.
#1. Is the technology fairness act.
Any type of technological advancement that would be beneficial in our species survival should be shaired amongst all countries.
All countries will turn against a country who wants to use technology breakthroughs for harm.
All countries should be on a level playing field. There should be no such thing as a "super power."
#2. Energy should be regulated.
It's okay for a person to make a living or even profit providing energy services but energy should be seen as a necessity for all.
The days of making billions off of commodities should become a product of the Model T ford era.
We live in a new century where energy monopolies and people with extreme weath from oil actually hurt both people and the environement.
How we use energy responsibly in the future is vital for our own survival. This should be not something controlled by corporate institutions who are more concerned with profit margins.
#3. Re-evaluation of wealth
A person in scoiety can be rewarded without having extreme wealth in their acomplishments/sucess in life.
A CEO or a menial labor worker both play an important role in society. Doing what you enjoy and are good at and helping society should be reward enough.
#4. Nationalistic ideals have lesser importance
As there is technology proliferation and breakthroughs in everything from energy alternatives to travel/global commerce a world devided by borders will become less important in our daily lives. It will have only a cultural importance from a historical perspective. Everyone will take pride in being a human from the planet earth living amongst cvilizations that exist on other planets (extarterrestrial intelligence).
We will no longer call ET's "aliens" but they will be considered people too after disclosure.
A more evolved species must get past having fear towards those who are different both physically and culturaly. We all share a common bond in having intellectual capacity and a desire for self preservation.
#5. Governmental transparecy
There will be no longer a reason to keep lots of secrets since everyone on the earth will be co-existing peacefuly and benefiting eachother.
Any new discoveries during the intellectual revolution will be shared to all people of the world in a system that values transparency and exchanging knowledge.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 1:14:55 GMT -6
There's one way you can completely be rid of secrecy. A united globalized government and technology proliferation. A lot of weapons we use in modern warfare are archaic and there is also a lot of collateral damage/reprocussions for our violent actions. In fact if you notice in the 21st century the internet and social media seem to be more effective in instigating regime change than using military superiority and occupying foreign land. As people aroud the world see how technology is evolving and become part of a global village there is more incentive for them to mobolize and act in instigating change in their own government. Certian things need to happen in order to get rid or wars and a beurocracy of secrecy. #1. Is the technology fairness act.Any type of technological advancement that would be beneficial in our species survival should be shaired amongst all countries. All countries will turn against a country who wants to use technology breakthroughs for harm. All countries should be on a level playing field. There should be no such thing as a "super power." #2. Energy should be regulated.It's okay for a person to make a living or even profit providing energy services but energy should be seen as a necessity for all. The days of making billions off of commodities should become a product of the Model T ford era. We live in a new century where energy monopolies and people with extreme weath from oil actually hurt both people and the environement. How we use energy responsibly in the future is vital for our own survival. This should be not something controlled by corporate institutions who are more concerned with profit margins. #3. Re-evaluation of wealthA person in scoiety can be rewarded without having extreme wealth in their acomplishments/sucess in life. A CEO or a menial labor worker both play an important role in society. Doing what you enjoy and are good at and helping society should be reward enough. #4. Nationalistic ideals have lesser importanceAs there is technology proliferation and breakthroughs in everything from energy alternatives to travel/global commerce a world devided by borders will become less important in our daily lives. It will have only a cultural importance from a historical perspective. Everyone will take pride in being a human from the planet earth living amongst cvilizations that exist on other planets (extarterrestrial intelligence). We will no longer call ET's "aliens" but they will be considered people too after disclosure. A more evolved species must get past having fear towards those who are different both physically and culturaly. We all share a common bond in having intellectual capacity and a desire for self preservation. #5. Governmental transparecyThere will be no longer a reason to keep lots of secrets since everyone on the earth will be co-existing peacefuly and benefiting eachother. Any new discoveries during the intellectual revolution will be shared to all people of the world in a system that values transparency and exchanging knowledge.
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Post by randy on Jun 8, 2012 11:59:51 GMT -6
Where to begin. People will always be people. Some things are hard wired into our mentality and wishful thinking will not change that. competition is hard wired in out mentality. This was determined many years ago. We compete for the best mates, food and living areas as a matter of survival. To function as a viable society we have to have accepted rules and defined methods of conduct. Half our national problems come down to diversity like the tower of Babble story. Our founding fathers had basicly a common education, a common religion and commonly accepted values. That is why we functioned fairly well as a nation. Yet we had a major civil war in our history. They stated that our form of govt was for a Christian people and no other. the world has huge problems and we cannot solve them by becoming a third world nation ourselves. A leader leads period. WE need borders for stability as a people. Only a stable people can devote time and resources to developing new technology that would solve much of the worlds problems. In truth parts of the world still engage in the most primative of behaviors such as cannibalism. Such was present in Hawaii past the year 1900. The US must maintain its self as an ordered, safe and strong country to preserve its people and culture. With this as a stabled base we can develop new technology and act as the world leader that can bring the lesser developed areas of the world out of chaos and primal behaviors.
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Post by ufo4peace on Jun 11, 2012 16:29:15 GMT -6
Where to begin. People will always be people. Some things are hard wired into our mentality and wishful thinking will not change that. competition is hard wired in out mentality. This was determined many years ago. We compete for the best mates, food and living areas as a matter of survival. To function as a viable society we have to have accepted rules and defined methods of conduct. Half our national problems come down to diversity like the tower of Babble story. Our founding fathers had basicly a common education, a common religion and commonly accepted values. That is why we functioned fairly well as a nation. Yet we had a major civil war in our history. They stated that our form of govt was for a Christian people and no other. the world has huge problems and we cannot solve them by becoming a third world nation ourselves. A leader leads period. WE need borders for stability as a people. Only a stable people can devote time and resources to developing new technology that would solve much of the worlds problems. In truth parts of the world still engage in the most primative of behaviors such as cannibalism. Such was present in Hawaii past the year 1900. The US must maintain its self as an ordered, safe and strong country to preserve its people and culture. With this as a stabled base we can develop new technology and act as the world leader that can bring the lesser developed areas of the world out of chaos and primal behaviors. Actually cultures become more liberal as they become more advanced. I don't buy into American supremecy because people will evolved with or without us. Finland for example is ranked #1 in education. A model to the rest of the world. Not so much the USA. Try telling the Chinese they need Christianity to perfom well on test. If you go to places like Shanghai it's pretty much a modern city. Sweden has a budget surplus unlike trillion dollar U.S. National Debt yet we try and dictate how the rest of the world has to live. Countries like Brazil have a lot of upside and a wealth of resources. The US seems to be in decline. So you can spend as much as you want on military and have a lot of secrecy but that's probably not good for progress. Look at the results. So in the 21st Century the world no longer revolves around the US. Everything is pretty much alredy globalized. Unfortunately instaed of leading by example and being a truly transparent government that has little to hide we seem to have a lot to hide and very little to gain from it unless maybe you are the 1%.
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Post by randy on Jun 15, 2012 12:36:46 GMT -6
Countries such as China and Japan are basicly monolithic and have one defined culture and one defined people with common values. There value system creates the rest of society. Finland and Sweden again were a coomon people. I say were because third world imports have begun to create the problems of social unrest and crime found in the US. It is hard to believe that such countries have problems with immigrant welfare, bombings and race hate already. If a stable society values hard work and education they usually succeed as a nation. those societies who still think in tribalism and related conflict value education little as they lack stability and simple daily security. As woman from North Africa said to me Americans live in a pink chiffon world that is not like the rest of the world. in her native land they did not know if they would live the day out. Such societies cant get beyond daily survival
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Post by randy on Jun 15, 2012 12:59:36 GMT -6
countries such as England, France, Germany and others lead the world in technology and education. England established the empire and in so doing also established the seeds of civilization around the world. It was a great leap forward in that widows were not burned alive in India, Cannibalism was suppressed in many areas and people were exposed to new ideas instead of the local tribalism of the time. Many people were brought out of the stone age regardless of how you view the British empire Currently the US has been the world leader. As lack of leadership ability in the US results in a power vacuum around the world others will rise to fill the void. This competition for power has the potential for conflict.
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