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Post by auntym on Dec 21, 2012 13:27:16 GMT -6
www.svherald.com/content/community/2012/12/20/343785 Backyard Astronomer: Astronomy and the Star of Bethlehem[/color] by Neal Galt Thu, 12/20/2012 - Every year, during the month of December, the Backyard Astronomer will get several requests to explain the star of Bethlehem from an astronomer’s point of view. What was possibly in the sky at that time above the manger when Jesus was born? Here is a composite of various astronomers’ attempts to explain this event, even though there is only one reference to it in the Bible (St. Mathew) and collaborating observations from other countries are either non-existent or very questionable. Also, the date of Jesus’ birth is uncertain (winter or summer) and the calendar we use was completely revamped by Exiguus (a Roman monk) in 556 AD and previous dates were possibly skewed by months or even years. Most astronomers feel that “a star” was actually a reference to a “star-like” object in the night sky, as the ancients had no concepts of star sizes or the real differences between planets and stars. In the night sky, planets and stars visually appear the same, and the sun and the moon did not appear to be connected to either. Here are the four most popular explanations along with their shortcomings: 1. The planet Venus. Venus is certainly the brightest star-like object in the night sky, but the ancients were very familiar with the movements of the classical planets and Venus would not have confused them. Likewise, it is doubtful that the great conjunction of Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars in 6 BC would have been interpreted as a moving star that would have led the wise men to Jesus. 2. A comet. A comet appears to hang motionlessly in the night sky, and would not have been a good signpost to follow. (Usually in the sky for a few weeks) Also, comets were considered harbingers of doom, not messengers announcing a great birth or great events soon to come. 3. A Nova (an exploding star). Again, this object would also not appear to move through the night sky and would only be visible for a few weeks. Either a comet or a Nova would have been noted by astrologers in other countries as they would be visible to all in the hemisphere. 4. Two meteors. A bright meteor or shooting star crossing the night sky could appear to be a pointing devise. If another bright meteor appeared on another night going in the same direction, the two events could have been connected as the same object resent to guide the wise men. This falls way short in explaining how these star-like objects would come to rest over the manger. In conclusion, we simply can’t answer the questions as to what is was, when it was, and we may never be able to explain it using astronomical data. However, the frequency with which the question is asked, is probably of more importance, as it indicates the depth of the spirit and concern of a great part of mankind. CONTINUE READING: www.svherald.com/content/community/2012/12/20/343785
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 14:20:31 GMT -6
I'm just surprised that no one has come up with the idea of fleets of aliens driving around with bright white led's on their ships formed the star. I'm sure someone somewhere has thought of it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 21:22:37 GMT -6
I'm just surprised that no one has come up with the idea of fleets of aliens driving around with bright white led's on their ships formed the star. I'm sure someone somewhere has thought of it I think most have,even within the Astronomical community but they wont (and can't) admit it. There are places out there on the net which is Astronomy related which I visit quite a bit and have gotten to know various Astronomers from around the world but most forum rules state that this type of thing cannot be spoken of, only behind the lines in private pm's. I can understand and respect that to a point but at times I have seen it taken a bit too far and have seen good people banned. I know they want to keep things scientific but I wished they would open their minds just a bit further to what they have seen and others too and allow it somewhat to be written about and documented for true scientific purposes without being trigger happy.
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Post by skywalker on Dec 21, 2012 21:48:55 GMT -6
They can't upset the status quo, dude. Just think of all that government grant money that would mysteriously vanish if some scientist somewhere didn't toe the party line. If the Feds say there are no UFOs then by golly they mean there are no UFOs! It doesn't matter that the things might be dancing around in every telescopic lens on the planet. I have heard people suggest that the star of Bethlehem might be a UFO...but they are all UFO advocates who suggest it. I really don't know what the think could have been. I can't think of any scientific phenomenon that could behave the way it is described in the Bible...but how do we know the Biblical account is accurate? Maybe the dude just made it up...or maybe it was something that got blown way out of proportion. After all, the dude who wrote the story wasn't there when it happened so all he had to go by was what other people told him...and I think we all know very well how accurate eye-witness testimony is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 22:48:14 GMT -6
Where do you draw the line ? Wanting to see a UFO or thinking aliens are here and good..so badly that you look at everything as being that..and exclude any kind of need for proof? I've seen some of the weirdest stuff imaginable..been involved in what could only be called the miraculous and still..I try to see all sides of something..all possibilities. To not be closed minded and rigid but also not be gullible and foolish. Can't tell me the Star of Bethlehem was a UFO..without proving it..and yet..I can absolutely believe it was God's own miracle because..I have faith in God..and not in the mechanics of man (be they alien or the local variety). Lately..I pick up on hints that I'm almost a skeptic..but shouldn't we be? Shouldn't we want to know instead of guess, pretend and fantasize? I'm starting to think..there are true UFO hunters and enthusiasts that want to find the truth..and then there are the UFO nuts who don't care if there's proof or not..it's got to be a UFO no matter what. What is the rush?? If they're hanging around..eventually they'll get around to sharing. IF...we're worth the hassle.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 23:55:11 GMT -6
I believe the star or whatever was there. It could have been a comet, a nova, or supernova . It could have been a craft of God or several crafts from a trillion different planets. I respect the fine line and uphold it within the community but there are things that most Astronomers can relate to within their lifetime of observations to have no explanation for and with no scientific place to turn to for a proper explanation.
Imo these things should be allowed to talk about since they are observations. Basing assumptions or presumptions,,, no,,, but descriptions of sightings that an observer can find no explanation for,,,yes.
I don't know if every Astronomer or amateur Astronomer has seen things but every one that I've spoken with behind the curtains in private have at least one or two times within thousands of hours of observing such as myself. These things happen very rarely but when they do, I believe there should be a place within the scientific community to lay it all out for analysis.
Skywalker,I know eyewitness testimony has it's disadvantages but discoveries have also been made that way and there is a phenomena happening awaiting the most important discovery in the history of mankind and the community can't even make mention of it. That's where my frustration comes in.
I'm a skeptic to a point like you Jo and that is healthy imo. I understand that it doesn't matter what I believe or even have seen but only what can be proven by the scientific method. Most videos I watch on youtube or wherever I find absurd and can usually make out what it is and then there are the stupid hoaxers who aren't helping one bit and are damaging to the cause. In the mix of all the b.s., there's also a few in there that need further evaluation.
How will e.t. visits ever be scientifically proven if the very community which we all rely on ( the scientists) are kept quiet about it and are not able to openly discuss it ? I believe doors need to be opened and more research put into this. We know,,,,and surely ( I know) that they do too.
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Post by skywalker on Dec 22, 2012 7:28:03 GMT -6
That is exactly why they are being kept quiet. The government doesn't want the truth to be known because they want the advanced technology for themselves. That's why scientists are not allowed to openly research UFOs. Anybody who does is ostracized from the scientific community and made out to be a nutball.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 11:59:57 GMT -6
Then damm the scientific community and someone make a stand forward. Heck it's only a career..I'm sure jack in the box is hiring.. We can't ask people to do that..especially with the world as shaky as it is. What we need..is someone who doesn't rely on a career to exist...but there aren't many independently wealthy scientists..oh wait..there are..and they're not talking either. 'sigh' we lose. Who has the right to think for us? A government who can't even think for itself? There may be a code..but so help me Cliff if you see a mega planet approaching and you don't tell us..consider yourself spanked ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 20:25:07 GMT -6
The Star of Bethlehem being a UFO? I've tried very hard to not chime in my 2 cents ;D. First of all, it is documented (and I'm not going to say "in the bible") that the "wise men" (Astrologers) had been following this "star" for years. then, there are some Christians who understand what a "miracle" this was, in and of itself. Most likely these Wise men had a totally different religion. After "finding" the stars purpose, and verifying a prophesy of old, they were willing to acknowledge it was a special event that should not be told to the local king. In fact, if these stories be true, the local people managed to keep a huge secret for almost 2 years. Now, when it comes to some ufos, it is my new understanding that there are those that can be predicted to show up, and they do. That doesn't take an astrologer, or scientist, to let us all know.
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Post by skywalker on Dec 22, 2012 23:43:06 GMT -6
First of all, it is documented (and I'm not going to say "in the bible") that the "wise men" (Astrologers) had been following this "star" for years. Where is that documented at Jc? I don't know if I have heard about them watching it for years. If true that might narrow down the possibilities quite a bit.
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Post by skywalker on Dec 22, 2012 23:59:30 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 1:11:12 GMT -6
I agree with the articles conclusion of Christ's birth being at the end of Sept which was actually Sept.25th. There is a pastor who did a great job of explaining this to me which took a lot of info and biblical accounts to get this date but he made sense. I believe that Christ was still conceived on Dec. 25th which still gives me every reason to have the Christmas spirit with nothing taken away, if anything, it adds to it and provides fulfillment of the prophecy. The account of Jesus' cousin John which is mentioned in this article provides a good but brief explanation of this as John was 6 months older than Jesus was and the timeline fits perfectly. It took a ton of documentation to get to this conclusion and has been some time since I went through all of it but I agree. It would be difficult for me to try to explain it and show all of the required documents myself without his help. I can definitely agree that it was a ufo. It is still unidentified to this day. My 2 cents would be that it was a chariot of God. These things showed up quite a bit back then on many accounts. Good article !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 10:55:54 GMT -6
Since..UFO translates to 'UNIDENTIFIED flying object' I can agree there too.. doesn't stand for alien entity flying around in a spherical object..it remains unidentified. Until something cruising around up there is cataloged it is classified as a UFO.. We tend to take the parts of the bible we want to use to make points and shelve the parts we're not so fond of. Revelations is confusing but then it's prophecy...brings Nostradamus to mind with his confusing rhetoric. So..Christmas. Commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ...Christ/Mass ..perhaps the day of his conception but it will be awhile before we know that. I do know one thing...we are not alone in the celebration of it and it should be a time for people to set aside differences and at least pretend they like one another. Just for fun...in other languages:
Africa - Een Plesierige Kerfees Arabic - Milad Majid China - (Cantonese) Gun Tso Sun Tan'Gung Haw Sun Corsian - Pace e salute Ethiopia - Melkin Yelidet Beaal Finland - Hyvaa joulua France -Joyeux Noel German - Fröhliche Weihnachten Greece - Kala Christouyenna Hawaii - Mele Kalikimaka India - Baradin ki shubh kamnaaye Italy - Buone Feste Natalizie Korea - Sung Tan Chuk Ha Navajo - Merry Keshmish Philippines - Maligayang Pasko Poland - Wesolych Swiat Bozego Narodzenia Portugal - Boas Festas Russia - Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva is Novim Godom Spanish - Feliz Navidad Sweden - God Jul Wales - Nadolig Llawen
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 11:57:25 GMT -6
First of all, it is documented (and I'm not going to say "in the bible") that the "wise men" (Astrologers) had been following this "star" for years. Where is that documented at Jc? I don't know if I have heard about them watching it for years. If true that might narrow down the possibilities quite a bit. well. . . here's one internet source (there are many www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22347641/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/why-did-wise-men-follow-star-east/this guy also had access to NASA database. . .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 12:01:01 GMT -6
"For that reason, Mathews believes the Christmas star is most likely an alignment of planets. He said there are three likely times for this: •Feb. 20, 6 B.C., when Mars, Jupiter and Saturn aligned in the constellation Pisces. •April 17, 6 B.C., when the sun, Jupiter, the moon and Saturn aligned in the constellation Aries while Venus and Mars were in neighboring constellations. •June 17, 2 B.C., when Jupiter and Venus were closely aligned in Leo. Mathews believes the April 17, 6 B.C., alignment is the most likely candidate. It makes sense because he believes the wise men were Zoroastrian astrologers who would have recognized the planetary alignment in Aries as a sign a powerful leader was born. ___________________________________________________
;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 12:33:43 GMT -6
I believe in being open minded..to me that means being open to that which we cannot explain and being open to other possibilities..to fact or scientific evidence. Open...period Could we just agree to enjoy the season without needing to pin the tail on the donkey? The only belief that bothers God..is none. So..if someone wants to believe Christ was born in 3054 and went back in time to save us all and the star was really his time machine heralding his own birth...then...can anyone really prove otherwise? Nope..sort of like the elusive aliens...it requires a bit of faith...just to believe. Or as Tim would say..God bless us everyone!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 9:10:42 GMT -6
Sure! I agree ;D. I was just trying to give something "scientific" instead of my ol' steadfast faith . Personally I like to think of Jesus as a spring chicken! Just the fact that so many people are acknowledging His birth and are curious about it, is so cool! From the star I go on to wonder what a lovely first child he must have been! I still like to think of "B. C. E. " as "Before Christ Era" ;D And, in honor of His birthday (whatever day it is , I just want to note how many people have made an effort to disprove anything about the HIStory G_d gave us on this earth, and have come away as believers. May His grace meet you wherever you are!
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