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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 14:24:57 GMT -6
I had mental debates over where to put this. Since the remains actually do exist it's not a mythical critter..and it's not crypto-biology because it is human with apelike characteristics..so..I stuffed it here. It's interesting and a bit worrisome to me. It's an extinct south African creature that seems to have characteristics of both human and ape. news.yahoo.com/ancient-creature-mixed-human-apelike-traits-183441713.html
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Post by dawnoftime on Apr 11, 2013 14:45:03 GMT -6
Don't worry... every so often folks in my field find something like this and everyone either thinks we will "have to rewrite all the books" and others who feel such finds are not that significant, or at least surprising. We actually have very little fossil evidence to try to tack down the primate tree, so to speak, and so anything we find I think is interesting but inconclusive. There are bound to be all kinds of "transitional" forms out there that we can see ourselves in. Jane Goodall has made the point that we share 50% of our DNA with the common fruit fly -- we are certainly closely related to all these apes/hominids we find. We just may never know exactly how. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 11:54:31 GMT -6
Oh I wasn't worried about possible genetic connections to apes..we have genetic connections to lots of things and it's pretty hard to build a gene pool from just Adam and Eve. I'm sure they had some kind of 'help' along the line.
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Post by dawnoftime on Apr 12, 2013 12:58:53 GMT -6
Oh I wasn't worried about possible genetic connections to apes..we have genetic connections to lots of things and it's pretty hard to build a gene pool from just Adam and Eve. I'm sure they had some kind of 'help' along the line. If you don't mind my asking, what were you refering to when you said you found something worrisome? I always love your posts and I am interested!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 22:17:36 GMT -6
It's more worrisome to me that we have so little left to study..they're extinct (for all we know) and it would have been amazing to know more about them. I guess 'sad' would have been better than worrisome I'm never bothered by the idea of evolution. I make no bones about a very strong belief in God but I'm not convinced the bible is exactly accurate in it's interpretation ..maybe in so far as the writers knew..it is..but I'm pretty sure no one knows the whole story. It's just as plausable to me that God started the whole evolution thing working us up from slugs n slime ;D
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Post by skywalker on Apr 13, 2013 20:19:01 GMT -6
There are probably hundreds if not thousands of species of ancient hominids that we know nothing about simply because either we have not found any fossils from them or they did not leave any behind. We have barely even begun to scratch the surface of the earth looking for fossils. There might be extinct human/ape creatures buried right underneath out feet.
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Post by dawnoftime on Apr 14, 2013 4:41:10 GMT -6
There are probably hundreds if not thousands of species of ancient hominids that we know nothing about simply because either we have not found any fossils from them or they did not leave any behind. We have barely even begun to scratch the surface of the earth looking for fossils. There might be extinct human/ape creatures buried right underneath out feet. I enjoyed reading both posts above (skywalker and jokelly). A longing to know more about these ancestors certainly influenced me in my pursuit of anthropology. It is exciting to know there is so much left to see, and, as skywalker pointed out, right under our noses. Too true, though, that no matter what we find there will still be mystery!
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Post by bewildered on May 2, 2013 12:41:06 GMT -6
We humans are rather odd apes, no question about it. At some point in our evolution, we diverged from reacting to the environment to proactively altering it to suit our own needs. We seem to forget that we aren't the only intelligent animals on this planet, for a number of other life forms possess self-awareness and an undeniable intellect. No, they can't solve quadratic equations, but they have a sense of self and prove it in a series of scientific experiments. Here's a very interesting Wikipedia article about the Mirror Test. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test
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Post by dawnoftime on May 2, 2013 13:00:14 GMT -6
We humans are rather odd apes, no question about it. At some point in our evolution, we diverged from reacting to the environment to proactively altering it to suit our own needs. We seem to forget that we aren't the only intelligent animals on this planet, for a number of other life forms possess self-awareness and an undeniable intellect. No, they can't solve quadratic equations, but they have a sense of self and prove it in a series of scientific experiments. Here's a very interesting Wikipedia article about the Mirror Test. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_testAfter I knew gorillas for a while I had to laugh, reading about them "failing" the mirror test. They just don't care. They simply aren't very reactive in that way; in fact, I thought some of those tests were actually "vanity" tests rather than self awareness tests, since chimps, for example, would try to wipe the mark off of their own faces in the mirror. Like me, gorillas don't give a fig when they have bad hair days. LOL When I used to teach and travel around to lecture I always had someone ask me, after hearing me talking about all the similarities between as and gorillas, "Well, what's the line then, that divides us from animals?" It was important to them to find some line. I would assume they meant between us and non-human animals,, since we are animals, and say, "Honestly I believe the only difference is the degree to which we make things up and believe them. And our deep sense of discontentment -- at least Western civilization." I agree with you, BW, that self-awareness certainly isn't the "line" nor is a sense of spiritual connection, intelligence...and some apes even lie and deceive and clearly have theory of mind (and the resulting moral wrestlings with guilt and desire) but we take that ability to make things up and believe them to extremes and we are restless, dissatisfied with what we have. To be fair, I think a lot of what we make up are metaphors for things that are really true (like a higher power in the universe, etc) but then we fight over the metaphors. I think the great Joseph Campbell commented on that.
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Post by bewildered on May 2, 2013 14:42:01 GMT -6
Gorillas are fascinating creatures. They are generally non-confrontational and despite their large size and fearsome canines, are peaceful leaf-eaters (they apparently like raisins, too). I would rather take my chances with a family of gorillas than walk down certain streets at night. As long as I don't pose any sort of threat, the silverback would ignore me.
Chimps on the other hand are nearly as dangerous as we are. That makes sense, since they are our closest living relative.
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Post by dawnoftime on May 2, 2013 18:36:18 GMT -6
Gorillas are fascinating creatures. They are generally non-confrontational and despite their large size and fearsome canines, are peaceful leaf-eaters (they apparently like raisins, too). I would rather take my chances with a family of gorillas than walk down certain streets at night. As long as I don't pose any sort of threat, the silverback would ignore me. Chimps on the other hand are nearly as dangerous as we are. That makes sense, since they are our closest living relative. Ha! Yes, BW! I actually take hope in the fact that bonobos are even more closely related to us genetically and they are very peaceful, too. Maybe there is light at the end of the primate tunnel! LOL
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CitizenK
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Post by CitizenK on May 2, 2013 23:29:57 GMT -6
I'm all for the light at the end of the primate tunnel! And I just wanted to add that I love and admire Campbell' s work, what a great mind he was! I've actually been looking more towards the reptilian brain and how much we actually share in common with reptiles as of late...interesting how both aptly apply to humans.
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Post by bewildered on May 3, 2013 2:05:22 GMT -6
@dawn: The Mirror Test has its limitations (that Wikipedia article I linked does a great job of describing them, which is very cool). I recall how gorillas were once regarded as the "least" intelligent of the "great" apes, but more research into these reclusive and rather shy creatures reveals that they are quite intelligent. I enjoyed visiting with the gorilla family at the zoo where I once worked. The silverback was a huge guy...massive really, but he was laid-back and very quiet. He was very shy, and would hide when people tried to photograph him. He was very self-conscious...I've noticed that most gorillas are like that. He was the one who loved raisins. During enrichment, the keepers would toss raisins at him, and he'd catch them in his mouth. Jokelly has certainly seen him and family a few times. I recall the results of genetic studies which reported that humans, bonobos, and chimps were more closely related to gorillas than orangutans, indicating a common ancestry that was more recent than orangutan divergence. One common misconception is the idea that apes are ancestors of humans and our more archaic human ancestors...that's not what DNA and fossil evidence indicate. Humans are apes, which makes the other apes our cousins. Gorillas are like your big, burly, quiet and gentle cousin; chimps are the loud-mouthed life of the party cousin; orangutans are your philosophical cousin; bonobos are your perverted cousin; and we are the geeky, weird cousin. Bonobos are a fascinating study. Their method of conflict resolution: sex. Make love, not war. Sadly, I didn't have many opportunities to see the bonobos (or the chimpanzees for that matter) at work, since they were secluded in an area only accessible to keepers and veterinary staff.
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Post by bewildered on May 3, 2013 2:07:27 GMT -6
I'm all for the light at the end of the primate tunnel! And I just wanted to add that I love and admire Campbell' s work, what a great mind he was! I've actually been looking more towards the reptilian brain and how much we actually share in common with reptiles as of late...interesting how both aptly apply to humans. The brain is an amazing thing. All vertebrates share the same brain structure, from lizards, birds, dogs, elephants, dolphins, and yep, us. Ours is different due to the massive cortex piled on top.
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