Post by paulette on Jan 4, 2012 12:53:52 GMT -6
OK...This is something that has come out of left field (TOTALLY unexpected).
I put the story on someone else's thread as an example of, what do we really know about the reality of dreams. The topic of the dream has expanded exponentially for me so I am giving it its own thread.
How I got to Lebensborn?
I had a dream when I was a young teen. I actually had several dreams that were so intense that they stayed me throughout my growing up years. One was of a dream scene that I thought related to the Romans. First I thought I had found Roman ruins sticking out of our back yard. I was so convinced that I went out and stratched around looking for them. Life went on - until 1972 when I took an extended trip with friends to look at archeological ruins on the Gulf of Mexico side of Mexico. I slowly realized that the archetecture that I had had in my dream was Mayan. Mayans never figured out how to make a rounded arch (Romans did). They would bring an opening closer at the top but then finish it with a flat cap stone. This is called a keyhole arch. This was what I had dreamed. To complete my feelings of deja vu, we blew a tire and plunged into the jungle, narrowly missing trees on the way to Tulum. This whole area is now the "Mexican Riviera"/Cancun but then was mangrove tangles and swamp with a few isolated coconut groves and Mayan peasants.
We spent three days in Tulum while the person who spoke Spanish left with our two mangled tires and rims. There was no phone, no telegraph...an outpost of Federales whose main duty seemed to be to court the local girls in front of where we had been towed (a very small store). I felt like I was only partially in this life, and partially in another. In my dream, Tulum was being sacked by Spanish invaders who had been given information about how to get up the cliff by a woman who consorted with a Spaniard. In the dream there was smoke and fire and screaming. It was intense. Remember, when I dreamed this dream, TV shows were in black and white, there was no violence portrayed on the one or two channels we got. My parents were incurious about Mayan history and we had no books on the topic. The whole history of European invasion and its devastation is STILL not taught in schools, nevermind in 1960.
But Lebensborn? Well that was the other dream I remembered and carried along unsolved. I had dreamed I was a young girl (about the age I really was - 12 or so) and I was in a setting that seemed like a hospital in that everyone was wearing white but there weren't sick people. There were men in uniforms coming and going and we were all young women/girls except for the supervisiors who were older women. I was afraid and a woman was trying to reassure me that I would be alright. It was German. There was still a memory (real life memory) of hearing German spoken by my family and friends (it was the language used when you didn't want your kids to know what you were talking about.) I had been yelled at in German "Verstae stu!" (probably misspelled) but I took it to mean "Do you understand me!" (Lorelei you can correct my spelling)
I was somewhat aware in the dream that I was going to have sex with one of the Germans in uniform. I was in a dormitory, waiting my turn. I was wearing a short white shift (unlike anything I had ever worn in real life) At that time in life I knew none of particulars about sex, creating a baby, nothing. I wasn't even very curious yet. So this dream deeply shocked me.
I thought I had forgotten about it until in the last two weeks I stumbled upon an article about Lebensborn. There are many good UTube clips on this if you are curious. There I saw the maternity hospitals which also served to house young women who both had chosen to "give a child to the Reich" and later - perhaps had not chosen. However a pool of "volunteers" was the German Girl Club. They were indocrinated that the highest honor they could reach was to give the Nazi party a baby to further the over race. I saw a picture of 4 girls exercising and coyly looking at the photographer and who were indentifed as "brides of the Fuhrer" (spelling!). They were in short white shifts. I couldn't breathe.
As my research continued I discovered that the Nazis set up these birthing homes all over occupied Europe. They especially liked Nordic looks so once Norway was occupied they set up many there. The SS troops stole appropriate looking babies from Poland, and other places. Their duty was to breed up women to produce more soldiers as the birth rate was dropping and the death rate rising. Towards the end, soldiers on the front were as young as 12. The original videos are there to be seen - some from achieval German footage.
The babies were handled in a mass-produced way, never knowing their mothers past a brief period. They were assigned to Nazi couples who promised to raise them as good Nazi children/indoctrinate them.
I think my dream put me in the end of this program, when in desparation they used forced women and also younger German girls/women from the German Girls Club. I think it was around 1945 or so. I think I died soon after - maybe giving birth. I was born to this life in 1948.
I hypothose this in that to the surprise of my doctors who thought I was a great easy birth candidate (when I was 32 and having my first child), it was discovered after 2 days of labor (including drug enhanced nightmare labor) that my inner pelvic inlet was flattened and a baby's head could not pass through it. Happily surgical intervention was possible. However my son was in a shoulder presentation - would never have been born and he had a huge haematoma on the top of his head from the contractions banging him across my hip bone. Luckily he was not damaged by this. While enduring futile labor I had visions of having died during other labors. (I'm sure that dying in childbirth would be a common enough experience for women down through the ages). I had a clear visual of being an indian woman, crouched in a creekbed biting on a stick while some other Indians raided the village. I think I saw that in the movie but not before my own birthing experience in 1980. I also saw myself (third person) in a Conastoga covered wagon, lurching along in stuck labor watching the worry deepen on the faces of the women with me. When I awoke from the anesthetic, an old nurse chastised me for not immediately asking about my baby. I thought he had died. I thought we were going to die together towards the end.
The point of all this is, some folks who talk about reincarnation and memories of past lives say that we can carry somatic problems with us. Both my doctor and gynocologist were surprised that I couldn't have my children vaginally.
My family (real family) came to the USA well before WW1 - I've seen documents on Ancestry.com that you've got to know I've been interested in lately. However both sides are German. There was NO TALK of anything about German other than recipes for cookies and a few handblown old Xmas ornaments "from the old country". My father embodied what I think of as the exalted qualities of Nazism: He expected to be in complete control of his family and if he couldn't be, he punished and if that didn't work, he got rid of you. My half-brother (his step-son) left the home at age 15 with no further help from my father. In fact, my father intercepted all letters that my brother wrote me (and therefore I never answered). He drew pictures for me - I found them in storage after my father died.
When I was in my hippie stage I told him (at age 18) that I was leaving. He smiled and said, "I'll give you a 24 hour lead - you'll be in an insane assylum by the end of the week." I absolutely believed him and more or less toed the line until I refused to come home during the summer break of University (said I was studying) and then the next year just didn't come home. He was a Mason and believed that his God was the only version of God and everyone else seeing God differently was doomed to Hell. But that wasn't his problem. He was mega-disciplined - he had a heart and circulatory problem (later fixed by open heart surgery) but managed to keep his weight 25 lbs below normal by totally avoiding sugar and treats and exercising every day.
If you inform yourself about the Lebensborn you'll discover an unspoken about tragedy. A lot of the children (due to being mass produced and handled impersonally) ended up autistic. Many of these were "discarded". The ones who didn't look like the ideal were also "discarded". The stolen children - 250,000 on estimate were early on indoctrinated and told their parents had abandoned them. 25,000 were returned - to very uncertain fates. In Norway they were locked up in insane assylums (see above), experimented on, abused etc. In 2008 the Norweigan government acknowledged that the children had been blameless victims and they each received $2,000L. One of the singers in ABBA broke the silence, she had been gotten out of Norway to Sweden by her grandmother just in time before "liberation". (Certainly not liberation for the children). Mothers who had had such children (even if it was against their wills) were seen as collaborators, had their head shaved during the Liberation celebrations (apparently many of the Allied troops were sickened by what they saw) and run through gaunlets (?) of being beaten. If you stumbled you were beaten to death. You might be beaten to death later anyway.
None of this was in my textbooks!
I put the story on someone else's thread as an example of, what do we really know about the reality of dreams. The topic of the dream has expanded exponentially for me so I am giving it its own thread.
How I got to Lebensborn?
I had a dream when I was a young teen. I actually had several dreams that were so intense that they stayed me throughout my growing up years. One was of a dream scene that I thought related to the Romans. First I thought I had found Roman ruins sticking out of our back yard. I was so convinced that I went out and stratched around looking for them. Life went on - until 1972 when I took an extended trip with friends to look at archeological ruins on the Gulf of Mexico side of Mexico. I slowly realized that the archetecture that I had had in my dream was Mayan. Mayans never figured out how to make a rounded arch (Romans did). They would bring an opening closer at the top but then finish it with a flat cap stone. This is called a keyhole arch. This was what I had dreamed. To complete my feelings of deja vu, we blew a tire and plunged into the jungle, narrowly missing trees on the way to Tulum. This whole area is now the "Mexican Riviera"/Cancun but then was mangrove tangles and swamp with a few isolated coconut groves and Mayan peasants.
We spent three days in Tulum while the person who spoke Spanish left with our two mangled tires and rims. There was no phone, no telegraph...an outpost of Federales whose main duty seemed to be to court the local girls in front of where we had been towed (a very small store). I felt like I was only partially in this life, and partially in another. In my dream, Tulum was being sacked by Spanish invaders who had been given information about how to get up the cliff by a woman who consorted with a Spaniard. In the dream there was smoke and fire and screaming. It was intense. Remember, when I dreamed this dream, TV shows were in black and white, there was no violence portrayed on the one or two channels we got. My parents were incurious about Mayan history and we had no books on the topic. The whole history of European invasion and its devastation is STILL not taught in schools, nevermind in 1960.
But Lebensborn? Well that was the other dream I remembered and carried along unsolved. I had dreamed I was a young girl (about the age I really was - 12 or so) and I was in a setting that seemed like a hospital in that everyone was wearing white but there weren't sick people. There were men in uniforms coming and going and we were all young women/girls except for the supervisiors who were older women. I was afraid and a woman was trying to reassure me that I would be alright. It was German. There was still a memory (real life memory) of hearing German spoken by my family and friends (it was the language used when you didn't want your kids to know what you were talking about.) I had been yelled at in German "Verstae stu!" (probably misspelled) but I took it to mean "Do you understand me!" (Lorelei you can correct my spelling)
I was somewhat aware in the dream that I was going to have sex with one of the Germans in uniform. I was in a dormitory, waiting my turn. I was wearing a short white shift (unlike anything I had ever worn in real life) At that time in life I knew none of particulars about sex, creating a baby, nothing. I wasn't even very curious yet. So this dream deeply shocked me.
I thought I had forgotten about it until in the last two weeks I stumbled upon an article about Lebensborn. There are many good UTube clips on this if you are curious. There I saw the maternity hospitals which also served to house young women who both had chosen to "give a child to the Reich" and later - perhaps had not chosen. However a pool of "volunteers" was the German Girl Club. They were indocrinated that the highest honor they could reach was to give the Nazi party a baby to further the over race. I saw a picture of 4 girls exercising and coyly looking at the photographer and who were indentifed as "brides of the Fuhrer" (spelling!). They were in short white shifts. I couldn't breathe.
As my research continued I discovered that the Nazis set up these birthing homes all over occupied Europe. They especially liked Nordic looks so once Norway was occupied they set up many there. The SS troops stole appropriate looking babies from Poland, and other places. Their duty was to breed up women to produce more soldiers as the birth rate was dropping and the death rate rising. Towards the end, soldiers on the front were as young as 12. The original videos are there to be seen - some from achieval German footage.
The babies were handled in a mass-produced way, never knowing their mothers past a brief period. They were assigned to Nazi couples who promised to raise them as good Nazi children/indoctrinate them.
I think my dream put me in the end of this program, when in desparation they used forced women and also younger German girls/women from the German Girls Club. I think it was around 1945 or so. I think I died soon after - maybe giving birth. I was born to this life in 1948.
I hypothose this in that to the surprise of my doctors who thought I was a great easy birth candidate (when I was 32 and having my first child), it was discovered after 2 days of labor (including drug enhanced nightmare labor) that my inner pelvic inlet was flattened and a baby's head could not pass through it. Happily surgical intervention was possible. However my son was in a shoulder presentation - would never have been born and he had a huge haematoma on the top of his head from the contractions banging him across my hip bone. Luckily he was not damaged by this. While enduring futile labor I had visions of having died during other labors. (I'm sure that dying in childbirth would be a common enough experience for women down through the ages). I had a clear visual of being an indian woman, crouched in a creekbed biting on a stick while some other Indians raided the village. I think I saw that in the movie but not before my own birthing experience in 1980. I also saw myself (third person) in a Conastoga covered wagon, lurching along in stuck labor watching the worry deepen on the faces of the women with me. When I awoke from the anesthetic, an old nurse chastised me for not immediately asking about my baby. I thought he had died. I thought we were going to die together towards the end.
The point of all this is, some folks who talk about reincarnation and memories of past lives say that we can carry somatic problems with us. Both my doctor and gynocologist were surprised that I couldn't have my children vaginally.
My family (real family) came to the USA well before WW1 - I've seen documents on Ancestry.com that you've got to know I've been interested in lately. However both sides are German. There was NO TALK of anything about German other than recipes for cookies and a few handblown old Xmas ornaments "from the old country". My father embodied what I think of as the exalted qualities of Nazism: He expected to be in complete control of his family and if he couldn't be, he punished and if that didn't work, he got rid of you. My half-brother (his step-son) left the home at age 15 with no further help from my father. In fact, my father intercepted all letters that my brother wrote me (and therefore I never answered). He drew pictures for me - I found them in storage after my father died.
When I was in my hippie stage I told him (at age 18) that I was leaving. He smiled and said, "I'll give you a 24 hour lead - you'll be in an insane assylum by the end of the week." I absolutely believed him and more or less toed the line until I refused to come home during the summer break of University (said I was studying) and then the next year just didn't come home. He was a Mason and believed that his God was the only version of God and everyone else seeing God differently was doomed to Hell. But that wasn't his problem. He was mega-disciplined - he had a heart and circulatory problem (later fixed by open heart surgery) but managed to keep his weight 25 lbs below normal by totally avoiding sugar and treats and exercising every day.
If you inform yourself about the Lebensborn you'll discover an unspoken about tragedy. A lot of the children (due to being mass produced and handled impersonally) ended up autistic. Many of these were "discarded". The ones who didn't look like the ideal were also "discarded". The stolen children - 250,000 on estimate were early on indoctrinated and told their parents had abandoned them. 25,000 were returned - to very uncertain fates. In Norway they were locked up in insane assylums (see above), experimented on, abused etc. In 2008 the Norweigan government acknowledged that the children had been blameless victims and they each received $2,000L. One of the singers in ABBA broke the silence, she had been gotten out of Norway to Sweden by her grandmother just in time before "liberation". (Certainly not liberation for the children). Mothers who had had such children (even if it was against their wills) were seen as collaborators, had their head shaved during the Liberation celebrations (apparently many of the Allied troops were sickened by what they saw) and run through gaunlets (?) of being beaten. If you stumbled you were beaten to death. You might be beaten to death later anyway.
None of this was in my textbooks!