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Post by swamprat on Nov 4, 2012 11:12:00 GMT -6
Thanks to Wings of Crystal for finding this. Hey, no one ever said this was gonna be easy! Telegraph
UFO enthusiasts admit the truth may not be out there after allDeclining numbers of “flying saucer” sightings and failure to establish proof of alien existence has led UFO enthusiasts to admit they might not exist after all. By Jasper Copping 8:50AM GMT 04 Nov 2012 For decades, they have been scanning the skies for signs of alien activity. But having failed to establish any evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial life, Britain’s UFO watchers are reaching the conclusion that the truth might not be out there after all. Enthusiasts admit that a continued failure to provide proof and a decline in the number of “flying saucer” sightings suggests that aliens do not exist after all and could mean the end of “Ufology” – the study of UFOs – within the next decade. Dozens of groups interested in the flying saucers and other unidentified craft have already closed because of lack of interest and next week one of the country’s foremost organisations involved in UFO research is holding a conference to discuss whether the subject has any future. Dave Wood, chairman of the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (Assap), said the meeting had been called to address the crisis in the subject and see if UFOs were a thing of the past. “It is certainly a possibility that in ten years time, it will be a dead subject,” he added. “We look at these things on the balance of probabilities and this area of study has been ongoing for many decades. “The lack of compelling evidence beyond the pure anecdotal suggests that on the balance of probabilities that nothing is out there. “I think that any UFO researcher would tell you that 98 per cent of sightings that happen are very easily explainable. One of the conclusions to draw from that is that perhaps there isn’t anything there. The days of compelling eyewitness sightings seem to be over.” He said that far from leading to an increase in UFO sightings and research, the advent of the internet had coincided with a decline. Assap’s UFO cases have dropped by 96 per cent since 1988, while the number of other groups involved in UFO research has fallen from well over 100 in the 1990s to around 30 now. Among those to have closed are the British Flying Saucer Bureau, the Northern UFO Network, and the Northern Anomalies Research Organisation. As well as a fall in sightings and lack of proof, Mr Wood said the lack of new developments meant that the main focus for the dwindling numbers of enthusiasts was supposed UFO encounters that took place several decades ago and conspiracy theories that surround them. In particular, he cited the Roswell incident, in 1947 when an alien spaceship is said to have crashed in New Mexico, and the Rendlesham incident in 1980, often described as the British equivalent, when airmen from a US airbase in Suffolk reported a spaceship landing. Mr Wood added: “When you go to UFO conferences it is mainly people going over these old cases, rather than bringing new ones to the fore. “There is a trend where a large proportion of UFO studies are tending towards conspiracy theories, which I don’t think is particularly helpful.” The issue is to be debated at a summit at the University of Worcester on November 17 and the conclusions reported in the next edition of the association’s journal, Anomaly. The organisation, which describes itself as an education and research charity, was established in 1981. Its first president was Michael Bentine, the comedian and member of the Goons. It contains both sceptics and believers in UFOs and has been involved in several notable sightings and theories over the years. Its current president Lionel Fanthorpe has claimed in its journal that King Arthur was an alien who came to Earth to save humans from invading extraterrestrials. The summit follows the emergence earlier this year of the news that the Ministry of Defence was no longer investigating UFO sightings after ruling there is “no evidence” they pose a threat to the UK. David Clark, a Sheffield Hallam University academic and the UFO adviser to the National Archives, said: “The subject is dead in that no one is seeing anything evidential. “Look at all the people who now have personal cameras. If there was something flying around that was a structured object from somewhere else, you would have thought that someone would have come up with some convincing footage by now – but they haven’t. “The reason why nothing is going on is because of the internet. If something happens now, the internet is there to help people get to the bottom of it and find an explanation. “Before then, you had to send letters to people, who wouldn’t respond and you got this element of mystery and secrecy that means things were not explained. “The classic cases like Roswell and Rendlesham are only classic cases because they were not investigated properly at the time.” But Nick Pope, who ran the MoD’s UFO desk from 1991 to 1994 and now researches UFO sightings privately, said there was a future for the subject: “There’s a quantity versus quality issue here. “So many UFO sightings these days are attributable to Chinese lanterns that more interesting sightings are sometimes overlooked. “The same is true with photos and videos. There are so many fakes on YouTube and elsewhere, it would be easy to dismiss the whole subject out of hand. “The danger is that we throw out the baby with the bathwater. And as I used to say at the MoD, the believers only have to be right once.” www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/9653499/UFO-enthusiasts-admit-the-truth-may-not-be-out-there-after-all.html
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Post by auntym on Nov 4, 2012 12:02:44 GMT -6
thats science for you...i don't believe this... i think our sightings have increased...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 12:10:38 GMT -6
"Enthusiasts admit that a continued failure to provide proof and a decline in the number of “flying saucer” sightings suggests that aliens do not exist after all and could mean the end of “Ufology” – the study of UFOs – within the next decade. " Read more: theedgeofreality.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=otherufo&thread=2946&page=1#ixzz2BHKZtwn5____________________________________________________ Really? Or are sightings just becoming the 'norm', with no explanations for why they are seen?? The "paranormal" field interest is definitely rising. Are ufos now considered as part and parcel paranormal?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 14:09:00 GMT -6
On the decline ? I don't think so. If you talk with both professional and amateur astronomers behind the scenes they will tell you that they've witnessed things that cannot be explained but for many reasons they will not publicly disclose them. One of those reasons is because they are not allowed to in many places. These are people like myself who observe the skies on a regular basis. It took thousands of hours of observations of the sky for many years before I finally had my first sighting.
Like many of them which Ive talked to I have seen ufo's for myself but only on a couple of rare events. Just because the photos didn't take on one of the occasions doesn't mean they wasn't there. One of the problems is that it 'normally' takes a good quality DSLR camera to gather the photons required to record to a disc in dark situations and they are very expensive. I'm planning on purchasing one in the near future, however.
I agree with the article in a few statements though. 98% of the sightings are easily explainable,,, but what about the other 2% ? I'm sure one day when it's all said and done it will finally be proven , I have zero doubt in that. It is just a matter of time and it wont be quitters who are making the discoveries.
People who do not observe the skies on a regular basis sometimes get lucky just by randomly looking up and seeing something unexplainable that catches their eye. There are so many of those reports also and those are usually the ones which get reported most often.
If certain groups want to bow out then that isn't nothing new. There will be plenty of others who will take their place because they know the truth and are determined to prove it. Personally, I'm getting to the point where I could care less about who believes and who doesn't. I know what I know and I figure in time that those who are suppose to know will.
Cliff
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Post by paulette on Nov 4, 2012 16:50:19 GMT -6
Interesting. But like touched and auntym, I think there are more reports. More reports and more hoaxes. But still, more reports that aren't readily explanable. Certainly distant sightings of craft in the air is up. Perhaps abductions are down. Who could say? And as Cliff says, there are a lot of good witnesses who decide not to report. Amoung the obvious: policemen, professional pilots, military pilots and airbase personelle. Astronomers who get paid to watch only what they watch.
If people were reporting abductions to get attention - why wouldn't they still be? People still want attention and some will go to great lengths. It could be that a balance that we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT has shifted and the abductions are being kept at bay by the more beign visitors. (Steve's Han said as much earlier). Scientists here are always trying to track animals in ways that are the least harmful - for example, instead of darting polar bears and taking samples, they are now shooting them with a dart that drops off and contains a DNA sample which is all they need. The animal doesn't go through anaesthesia and recovery from it and the trauma (no doubt) of being paralyzed while being hurt and petted by humans. (the scientists can't seem to help themselves from petting a knocked out bear or cougar). Instead of remembering floating through walls into the mother ship, maybe the more updated version is a person has no memories but has a little puncture somewhere or sore place that they don't remember what happened there.
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Post by paulette on Nov 4, 2012 16:56:06 GMT -6
myself and 6 others witness 2 ufos PDF Print E-mail Posted: Oct 14, 2012 Sighting Date: Oct 7, 2012 Sighting Time: 8:10PM Location: red deer alberta Description:
we just finish our thanks giving supper and 7 of us were outside having a smoke.someone said what is that noise we looked up and saw a dark round flat object with no wings and the bottom had a light yellow dome,they were big .the clouds just roll back as it move thur.within 10 to 12 seconds there was a second one the same as the first,at same height and both were heading south west of red deer.again at 4:15 a.m i heard the same noise again.it woke me from my sleep but i never got up to have a look.i believe in ufos b4 this ,but now i am a true believer.i willing to take a lie detector test just to prove to everyone we are not lyin.
Here's a random one off Alberta UFO Study Group. One of about 10 in the last two months. Some probably meteors, others...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2012 21:29:51 GMT -6
I think it's more that people aren't finding the 'proof' they wanted and it's hard to stay motivated without it. For those who have had some run-in's or encounters..not quite so hard...been there..done that. You either have faith in God or you don't...you either believe in a more 'colorful' universe or you don't. Who says they come from other planets? Is it so hard to believe in other dimensions? Worlds existing parallel to ours? Science has less of a problem with that than they do UFO's. I'm more fascinated with string theory...synchronicities...dimensions...astral projection...shape shifting and exploring other earthly cultures..than I am UFO's because my experience there...was anything but pleasant. If they ever get around to wanting to communicate with us...they will.
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Post by skywalker on Nov 4, 2012 21:34:33 GMT -6
The government would love for ufology to be dead wouldn't they? They would have a much easier time covering up the truth if there were nobody investigating and trying to find it. In fact the main reason why civilian UFO investigations got started in the first place is because people didn't believe what they were being told by the government. This sounds to me like another attempt at a cover up. Try to discourage everybody by making them think they are wasting their time and that there is nothing worth investigating when the exact opposite is true. I don't think the number of sightings are down at all. I think they are increasing (along with the stupid hoaxes ). I think that what is decreasing is the number of people who are reporting them to investigating organizations like MUFON or whoever. Most people nowadays just put them on youtube or facebook, myspace, myface, mybutt or mywhatever. It's easier that way. I think a lot of investigators are also starting to leave the organizations because they can get more publicity (along with fame and fortune) just by having a blog or radio show or website. It allows people more freedom with fewer rules and regulations being put on them telling them who they can talk to or who they can share info with. MUFON runs their organization like the Communists ran the USSR. I also think that the argument that there is a lack of evidence is ridiculous. Right now we are standing on the brink of what might possibly be some huge discoveries. The Starchild skull has recently demonstrated through DNA testing that it is unlike any skull (human or otherwise) ever found anywhere on this planet. And the recent discovery of that tiny little "alien" that Dr. Greer is investigating could also be a huge revelation. Add to that the fact that a lot of people (like shami are capturing some really interesting things on film and you have evidence all over the place. To say that there is no evidence is silly. And all of that does not even begin to touch on the abduction phenomenon, which most of the UFO investigative organizations have refused to have anything to do with. Anybody who has had one of those closest of encounters is not about to give up on ufology because they are going to continue to seek answers until they have them. I think that the main problem that ufology has (at least as far as the organizations are concerned) is that they have been chasing after their own tails for the past six decades and they still haven't caught up with themselves. I have been saying for a long time that they need to change what they are doing. Interviewing witnesses, examining photos and videos and gathering soil samples is never going to prove anything yet they keep right on doing it just like they have been for the past sixty years. This is why they are not making any progress. Sooner or later they are going to have to change their approach or it is the organizations that will no longer exist. Individual investigators will keep right on investigating without them.
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Post by paulette on Nov 5, 2012 13:10:32 GMT -6
"I have been saying for a long time that they need to change what they are doing. Interviewing witnesses, examining photos and videos and gathering soil samples is never going to prove anything yet they keep right on doing it just like they have been for the past sixty years. This is why they are not making any progress. Sooner or later they are going to have to change their approach or it is the organizations that will no longer exist. Individual investigators will keep right on investigating without them." - Skywalker (above)
How DO you think things should be investigated or documented?
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Post by skywalker on Nov 5, 2012 14:40:05 GMT -6
I think they need to try to find some new techniques and new technology instead of just doing the same things over and over again. The Ambient Monitoring Project was a good idea but it needed to be carried all the way through. They never finished it...at least not that anybody in the general public knows of.
People have got to start looking in new directions and thinking outside the box. One of the first things they might try doing is actually taking a serious look at the abduction phenomenon and actually listening to what people have to say instead of just labeling everybody as kooks and then ignoring them. They might also see what connection psychic abilities have to UFOs, if any.
I do see some people coming up with new ideas but they are generally people who are working outside of the organizations. People like Steve and his hypnosis experiments or the people here and our little psychic experiment. Plutronus has some good ideas on technology that could be used to gather info. Even Shami is making some interesting discoveries with the videos that she is filming where she tries different things like filming storm clouds or pointing the camera near the sun. People need to start using their imagination. Every year we come up with new technological advancements that could be applied towards ufology. We just need to develop some of them.
I think the problem that a lot of the organizations have is that they place too many rules and restrictions on their people. They have specific ways of doing things that they have been doing for decades and that they think works and so that is what they keep doing even though it is producing little to no results. They need to open their minds to other possibilities and listen to other people for a change. Just because something was the best way to gather info 60 years ago that doesn't mean it still is.
I'm not saying that people should stop looking at photos and videos and gathering soil samples and stuff because we can still learn some things from them. That's not the only thing we should do though. And just because the proof still hasn't been found after 60 years that doesn't mean it never will be. Look at how long it took to prove that the earth was orbiting around the sun and remember how hard the powers that be tried to cover it up. That is pretty much the same situation we are facing today.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2012 15:49:50 GMT -6
I agree..if the same old stuff isn't getting us anywhere then branch out with something different. Part of what is upsetting is that things get so twisted by hoaxers and those wanting to 'help' the effort..that make up things so far off the wall that no one will believe them. The aliens are my friends ...I've been on their ship...they will make me a brand new body and I'll never age. Believe it or not..this was a real post on line and to the scientific community..or to anyone serious about this..it makes us all sound like a bunch of crack pots.
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Post by skywalker on Nov 5, 2012 16:07:45 GMT -6
The stupid hoaxers are a major problem. I gaurantee that 90% of the videos on Youtube are fakes. That's all the more reason why we should start trying new directions. We'll catch the stupid hoaxers off guard.
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Post by swamprat on Nov 6, 2012 9:52:20 GMT -6
UFO witness reports on rise: U.S. investigations expandingNOVEMBER 5, 2012 BY: ROGER MARSH Ufology is alive and well in the United States and the field appears to be fast growing along with strong growth in witness testimony, according to statistics compiled through early November 2012 with the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON). A November 4, 2012, story published in The Telegraph was one of several media outlets reporting on a statement made by Dave Wood, chairman of the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (ASSAP). Wood said a meeting had been called to address a crisis in the UFO subject to consider whether or not the subject was "a thing of the past." Wood cites UFO groups who have gone under and a decline in interest and reports on UFOs. Reached at his Cincinnati headquarters office today, MUFON Executive Director David MacDonald said ufology was alive and well. "The fact is that MUFON is receiving on average more than 700 cases a month," MacDonald said. "Furthermore the evidence is there. We have it. There are people in prison right now, some on death row, convicted on less evidence then what we have to support our belief that UFO's are real. We have eyewitness testimony, sworn affidavits, physical trace evidence, photographs and videos." MUFON is comprised of about 3,000 members and is the largest UFO investigation group organized on the planet. While the witness database of reports appears to be growing by about 30 percent annually, here are some annual numbers of total reports from Robert Powell, MUFON's Director of Research: 2007, 2,203 reports; 2008, 4,220 reports; 2009, 4,990 reports; 2010, 4,534 reports; 2011, 5,137. During the first 10 months of 2012, MUFON has received a total of 7,272 reports. www.examiner.com/article/ufo-witness-reports-on-rise-u-s-investigations-expanding?CID=examiner_alerts_article
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Post by auntym on Nov 8, 2012 12:12:22 GMT -6
www.openminds.tv/ufo-reports-up-ufo-reports-down-the-medias-roller-coaster-reporting-871/ UFO reports up, UFO reports down: The media’s roller coaster reporting[/color] 06 Nov, 2012 On November 5, 2012, the International Business Times and other media outlets published stories claiming that UFO sightings are on the decline. The source for this claim is a press release issued by the UK-based Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (ASSAP). This group asserts that “ufology has seemingly been in global decline” since the 1980s, and that “in many parts of the world, UFO sightings have exhibited a general downward trend.” But wait. I thought UFO sighting reports were at near-record levels. The Winnipeg-based group Ufology Research tracks UFO sighting reports in Canada, and data published in their 2011 Canadian UFO Survey concluded that 2011 was a near-record year for UFO sighting reports in Canada. The year’s numbers were just shy of the record set in 2008. In August, 2010, the Halifax Courier published a story titled, “UFO sightings on the rise.” In June, 2011, io9.com published a story titled “UFO sightings in Argentina on the rise.” In October, 2011, Finnish news site Yle Uutiset published a story titled, “UFO Sightings on the Rise in Finland.” In July, 2012, Australia’s Herald Sun reported that, based on data from UFO Research (NSW) Incorporated, “UFO sightings in Australia are on the rise.” In January, 2012, Lee Speigel of the Huffington Post published an article titled, “UFO Sightings Skyrocket Into 2012.” CONTINUE READING: www.openminds.tv/ufo-reports-up-ufo-reports-down-the-medias-roller-coaster-reporting-871/
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Post by skywalker on Nov 8, 2012 19:19:26 GMT -6
UFO reports are way up here in the US. Maybe they are down in England but they are not even beginning to slow down over here. The most recent ones are these big round orange light thingies that are popping up all over the place. There are more reports of orange thingies now than there ever has been.
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Post by isaackoi on Nov 9, 2012 12:43:16 GMT -6
The stupid hoaxers are a major problem. The "stupid hoaxers" aren't as big a problem as clever hoaxers! Unfortunately, ufology has more fundamental problems than having to deal with hoaxers (whether stupid, clever or otherwise). How much time has been wasted reinventing the wheel within ufology? So much of the material online (or even in print) is just the same old stuff recycled by different authors without going back to the source material. It's no wonder ufology has been going round and round in circles for years. (Please excuse the bit of a rant. I'm just feeling slightly frustrated at the moment). All the best, Isaac
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Post by skywalker on Nov 9, 2012 19:11:13 GMT -6
Very true statements, dude. Ufology does spend a lot of time recycling the same old stuff over and over again. People spin their wheels, chase their tails, run round and round in circles until they get dizzy and fall down then they get back up and do it all over again. It can definitely be pretty frustrating but I don't think it is even close to coming to an end. More and more people become interested in UFOs every day and they have to learn somehow. That's what the recycling is good for...to teach the beginners and get them interested in searching for the truth. With all of those people looking sooner or later somebody is bound to find something conclusive. It's just a matter of time. Welcome to the forum.
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Post by swamprat on Nov 9, 2012 20:33:03 GMT -6
Good to see you Isaackoi!
Swamprat
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Post by auntym on Nov 11, 2012 13:59:02 GMT -6
badufos.blogspot.com/2012/11/are-ufo-enthusiasts-giving-up-on.htmlTuesday, November 6, 2012 Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe - by Robert Sheaffer[/color]
Reflections on UFOs, skepticism, and practically anything else by Robert Sheaffer, author of "UFO Sightings," and the Psychic Vibrations column in The Skeptical Inquirer. Very likely you have seen the article in The Telegraph of London November 4 titled "UFO enthusiasts admit the truth may not be out there after all." The main point of the article is a statement by one Dave Wood, chairman of something called "the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (Assap)," who said that a "meeting had been called to address the crisis in the subject and see if UFOs were a thing of the past." The Telegraph's illustration accompanying this article I read the article's sub-headline "Declining numbers of “flying saucer” sightings and failure to establish proof of alien existence has led UFO enthusiasts to admit they might not exist after all," and I asked myself: where did this reporter get a crazy idea like that? Anyone who knows the field of UFOlogy knows that dedicated UFO believers are impervious to reason and fact. Indeed, they would not have reached the conclusions they have, and stubbornly maintained them, unless that were so. Who is this guy who is telling us that UFO sightings are fading away (when I know that they are not), and that widespread outbreaks of reason are causing longtime UFOlogists to question the Faith? To be truthful, while I stay pretty current on the UFO literature, I had never heard of this guy before, or his organization ASSAP. And yet here he is being cited in a major publication as a spokesman telling us the future of UFOlogy. What's with that? I tried to find something on the web about Dave Wood and UFOs predating the Telegraph article, and couldn't find anything. I did find something about ASSAP investigating a haunted house. So why are we supposed to care about what he says concerning UFOs? Well, it turns out that this "meeting" he is talking about is not some emergency get-together to address a UFOlogical Crisis of Faith. Instead it is called "Seriously Unidentified? ASSAP's First UFO Conference," and it looks like most other UFO conferences. Nothing in it suggests a 'crisis of faith' for UFOlogists, and the fact it's described as ASSAP's "first UFO conference" suggests that they expect to be holding more. Indeed, this looks like "business as usual," with speakers ranging from skeptic Ian Ridpath to Cal Cooper, author of a book titled Telephone Calls from the Dead. (The late parapsychologist D. Scott Rogo and Raymond Bayless co-authored a similarly-titled book Phone Calls from the Dead; see my book Psychic Vibrations, p. 136.) The only thing on the conference schedule even hinting at the supposed 'crisis of faith' is a fifty-minute "Round table discussion on the likely future of British Ufology and possible future trends." Panels like this are common at UFO conferences, and that wording could mean anything. CONTINUE READING: badufos.blogspot.com/2012/11/are-ufo-enthusiasts-giving-up-on.html
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