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Post by auntym on Jun 23, 2011 9:49:26 GMT -6
www.anomalist.com/ Warnings of Those Taken and Other Assorted Details
by Chris Holly The Anomalist June 23 Warnings of Those Taken and Other Assorted Details CHPW Weeks and months of interviews with a group Chris Holly refers to as "Real Time Abductees" are beginning to culminate in answers to many questions concerning the abduction phenomenon. The Real Time Abductees are people who were going about their normal lives in a daily scenario when the abductions took place. And all the events were so terrifying the abductees remember few details about their abductors. Many of the claims you are used to hearing from people who say they are abductees are summarily dismissed by the Real Time Abductees, who feel the entities they've encountered are not here to serve as benefactors to mankind. Be prepared to have the "anal probe" claim given the heave-ho, along with the claim the abductees are "space brothers" here to help save us from ourselves. And don't think there will be a UFO disclosure anytime our governments want to do so. Disclosure will only take place, if at all, when the unknown abductors, possessors of far superior technology and intelligence, decide it's to their benefit. Chris Holly gets answers to many questions from the Real Time Abductees, people who are all scarred by their encounters. There are warnings in this article about the folly of trying to contact UFOs, dangerous events approaching in the year 2012 and much more. Chris Holly says she has assembled this article at the request of the Real Time Abductees, having convinced them to share the information "for the sole reason it may one day help another who finds they too are alone looking into the dark eyes of the unknown." And Holly is promising more from the Real Time Abductees in the next few months. TO CONTINUE READING CLICK ON ABOVE LINK
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2011 18:41:32 GMT -6
I use to look at the "visit" I had as a bad thing,,, but Im just not sure anymore if it was bad. If I only knew why, it would solve the riddle. Knowing in itself that were not alone in this vast universe was the biggest bonus of this experience which solved the mysterious question Id had for many years knowing we couldnt be the only ones out there. I did feel pain during their procedure, but Ive felt pain much ,much worse than that and they didnt take my family or me away. I know this will sound crazy, but if they needed to come back later, although it would bother me in many ways, I guess a part of me wouldnt mind IF I knew it was for the good of humanity OR if it helped them in some way. I would actually like to take a ride out in space if they would let me see the view.I would also like to see the inside/outside of their craft and see how it works. As long as they dont go out of bounds with their procedures,i.e. anal probes, needles in the eye and things of that sort, than I dont have a problem. The minute they did, they would have a fight on board !!! Its like when I telepathically told the leader,"if you harm my family I will hunt you down",,, I meant it and Im sure it got the message . The fact knowing they made an attempt to comfort me by bringing xxxxx in to show me she was o.k. went a long way . It told me something, and that is that something in them partially cares for our feelings. Im sorry for those who had bad experiences and dont know what to say, so I guess ill leave it alone from here. Ive always been one of them guys who would climb a mountain because it was there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2011 20:53:53 GMT -6
Touched, I disagree with you on this. I think they only reason why they seem to care about our feelings is because we are easier to control when we are not in a state of rage or panic... but that's just my opinion... ~shrug~
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 1:17:16 GMT -6
Touched, I disagree with you on this. I think they only reason why they seem to care about our feelings is because we are easier to control when we are not in a state of rage or panic... but that's just my opinion... ~shrug~ youre probably right about that because although I couldnt move at that point, I was panicking though there wasnt much that I could do but telepathically threaten it. Please dont get me wrong, I wouldnt wish this on anyone else,,, only myself. I guess in some way after all this time im trying to find the positives in this experience because ive reflected so much on the negatives. If something good for someone else comes out of all this, than its worth it . I hope thats the case . I dont trust them though and I know you dont either, and thats understandable.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 10:38:22 GMT -6
I agree with both of you. Near as I can figure (and I've had awhile to think about it) there wasn't a 'personal' feeling of any kind in my abduction. I do think...they are drawn to certain people and maybe those are people they can 'hear'. I keep thinking these are people who have some psychic vibrations..and in that fashion they 'stand out'. Maybe the ones they can't 'hear' are of no interest to them. Around the same time (when I was 5) of the first incident in my room..I had begun having prophetic dreams about my father being 'sick' and he did have a series of heart attacks shortly after that..it was also a time I cried a lot because of my parents not getting along..I think strong emotion is connected to the 'psychic'..intensifies it. It wasn't that they cared about me personally they were just drawn to me and it was my friend, who is about as psychic as a door, that they had so much trouble with. They had a horrible time keeping her controlled. With me I could feel the horrible pressure in my head and the release of it when I was quiet..which would you pick? I'm really glad to see there is some group that is trying to 'quell' the rose glasses element. "Oh..they're here to save mankind and bring back Elvis" is not close to the ones I encountered. People insist on thinking that they 'think' like we do because it's the only rule of thumb we have. If they could crawl up into a dog or cat's mind for a few moments maybe it would help to understand but then again...who wants to think on such a very different level? I think it's vital that we accept what we might not want to see. Don't encourage them to be here if you have no idea of their agenda. Isn't that like inviting an vampire into your house? You think he's 'sexy' even though he's about to kill you. But YOU think you can talk him into something else even though..he's still a vampire. There is tendency for us to believe what we hear about 'aliens'. A member we had on another forum...kept telling others he was in contact with aliens and that the government was out to kill him..and he convinced more than a few people. When it was looked into..he was someone on meds who locals were very familiar with. Schizophrenics hear actual voices..be they spies or aliens or just people we can't see. Very real to them..real enough for others to be convinced. I think we need to be 'careful' and a wee bit skeptical of all of the stories we hear. IMO
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 10:56:43 GMT -6
I'm glad that the only time I hear voices that aren't really there is when I'm falling asleep or when I'm having sleep paralysis or lucid dreaming. I can only imagine what it would be like to be schizophrenic... must be awful... to be talking to someone, and everyone else is staring at you and saying, "There's nobody there... what's wrong with you?" ...but you see someone there... I can only imagine... Like the lady I saw in the grocery store talking to a bag of Doritos. All the courtesy clerks were laughing at her and pointing at her. I told them to stop it because it wasn't funny. They just stared at me. There's a guy who comes into the liquor store too. He's a nice guy... very polite and well-mannered.... when he's taking his meds that is. Sometimes when he goes off his meds the voices tell him to steal whiskey. According to my co-worker, in a sarcastic tone, "They're not very friendly voices." Again, this is not a funny situation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 11:43:27 GMT -6
I feel too for people who suffer from disorders like schizophrenia,adhd,mental retardation,and all mental illnesses for that matter,,,its very sad and its not their fault. In situations like that karma is a bleep for those who make fun of them. Ive read reports where people have made attempts to explain all abductions as being some part of a schizophrenia disorder, and I laugh at their igannance and failed attempts to explain it. Others have said its some form of a dream,, again, very wrong. In some cases its probably true, but the reality is that theirs a difference between the two at opposite ends of the spectrum. One is real, and the other only seems real to those who dont know better. About a year ago when I first disclosed this on a forum about the encounter I had the feeling that people would and wouldnt understand and decided after about 10 years to go ahead and disclose what happened anyway regardless of the outcome knowing that if it helped at least one other abductee, than it would be worth it . It was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do and still isnt easy. I knew there would be negative feedback from disbelievers, and I prepared myself for it. One of the first posts that came up replied"too pathetic to be true". That was the only one that Im aware of that came back negative , and it didnt bother me in the least because I know just like you know Jo, and leia77,as well as many others to the truth of the matter. I dont expect anyone to believe or understand this phenomena, but I do want people to be forwarned so that theyre not surprised if or when it may happen because from what Ive gathered, its happening more often than anyone ever knew, especially now that more individuals are coming forward.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 12:56:21 GMT -6
I feel too for people who suffer from disorders like schizophrenia,adhd,mental retardation,and all mental illnesses for that matter,,,its very sad and its not their fault. In situations like that karma is a bleep for those who make fun of them. Ive read reports where people have made attempts to explain all abductions as being some part of a schizophrenia disorder, and I laugh at their igannance and failed attempts to explain it. Others have said its some form of a dream,, again, very wrong. In some cases its probably true, but the reality is that theirs a difference between the two at opposite ends of the spectrum. One is real, and the other only seems real to those who dont know better. About a year ago when I first disclosed this on a forum about the encounter I had the feeling that people would and wouldnt understand and decided after about 10 years to go ahead and disclose what happened anyway regardless of the outcome knowing that if it helped at least one other abductee, than it would be worth it . It was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do and still isnt easy. I knew there would be negative feedback from disbelievers, and I prepared myself for it. One of the first posts that came up replied"too pathetic to be true". That was the only one that Im aware of that came back negative , and it didnt bother me in the least because I know just like you know Jo, and leia77,as well as many others to the truth of the matter. I dont expect anyone to believe or understand this phenomena, but I do want people to be forwarned so that theyre not surprised if or when it may happen because from what Ive gathered, its happening more often than anyone ever knew, especially now that more individuals are coming forward. Yes Cliff. ~hugs~ It wasn't so difficult for me to post it on the internet, because I have become desensitized to the whole internet thing from chatting and using forums since I was back in high school. All of my friends use them. The internet became, to my generation, a place where you could tell stories, and tell the truth and be completely anonymous. Nobody ever knew who you really were... That's why it is so easy for me to post things on here. It's like therapy... you just rant and rave about all the things you can't really talk about. It comes gushing forth through the fingers, and nobody can see your face or hear your voice. It still bothered me though when I first posted it on the internet. It was making me uneasy and nervous writing the story out for the first time... (I'm not so sure if it was the first time or not... I think I posted it on another forum when I was 17 somewhere... but I never really got a good response and left... Skywalker's avatar did look extremely familiar when I first saw it however over on the other forum, I never mentioned this before... but I think perhaps I have met you all before but I never came back to the forum for some reason or other...) I kept looking over my shoulder, and halfway through typing I ended up turning all the lights on... lol... But yea... I'm not so afraid of what other people think. I'm afraid of whether or not it actually happened... whether or not it was a dream... if it was a dream... that doesn't bother me. I would be more than happy to accept that it was a dream and forget about it... which is what I was doing for years... that's the answer I want to hear... probably because I have been hearing that answer for years... but... what if it wasn't? That's what bothers me... the "What if it wasn't?" That's why I'm here. That's why I was so glad that Cliff came forward with his story as well... it makes me feel a little less alone in this... because he had almost exactly the same "dream" so to speak... I mean... when I was a child I had many many nightmares... but I cannot describe those nightmares to anyone in any detail at all. I can however describe this one... and I still feel fear when I think about it. But... if it was just a nightmare, why do I remember it so vividly? Why do I still get nervous when I think about it? Why do I vividly remember seeing the round tip of that blurry gray finger (I have bad vision without my glasses and the finger was sooo close that I couldn't focus on it) pass in front of my left eye and feel it touch my forehead? Why do I remember that pair of big black eyes behind the finger staring at me??? It wasn't a nightmare. That's why I remember it... ~hugs to cliff~
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 13:20:36 GMT -6
I'm still sensitive about it..I probably always will be because I don't have the answers I need. I think I have a few of them..I think I understand the kind of people they take..but not why..not what they need the samples for unless it's random scientific gathering. It may be a part of their mental process that they catalog whatever they run into. If so they must have one heck of a library somewhere LOL. My worst problem with it is those who paint encounters in optimistic tones...or the accounts of sexual activity with gorgeous aliens from friendly worlds. I think a lot of abductees are coming forward to share the fears, the trauma, the disgust, embarrassment, humiliation and the confusion that comes with a close encounter with the bizarre. Forums like EOR are wonderful resources for people like us. I want to tell people, be curious, be open minded, be cautious and be afraid..it just might help should you get your wish and meet 'them'..have a very healthy respect for what you do NOT know and understand. Think caveman with fire I'm thrilled to have people who actually understand
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Post by lois on Jun 24, 2011 21:08:03 GMT -6
One abductee said once. I ask where they were from and who are you? They told her... You would not understand if I told you ... you people here don't even know where you originated from. I have never forgot it till this day trying to get some meaning to it. Sorta read between the lines in what they told her.
I would of said to them.. Well if you know how we got on this earth in the beginning you tell me now . I don't recall what came after that part of her story. They know us very well. They would if they have been coming here 10,000 years.
Now the same lifeform certain did not live this long, I mean they time traveled back. so one being may of seen it all so to speak. They have never intervened, which makes it more.. less understandable what their agenda is. I won't say if it is good or bad. I do believe it could be either way. Or maybe some are more interested in us than others. I don't believe they are all grays. Never have.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 21:51:58 GMT -6
Well according to some..there are over a hundred varieties here Lois..coincidence that they find earth??? Or lies that there are that many here..It just does not compute that we're the favorite spot in the universe. Now if they are in some fashion from Earth themselves..then it begins to make sense. Either from here..or from dimensions close to our own that just requires slipping through some spacial fabric...doorways. It would take moments to open a 'doorway' if you had the technology..slip through and visit what ever dimension you wished to visit. No problems with space..no need for sophisticated propulsion..it would be like making a connection on the subway and getting off at Earth. It also explains shadow people, ghosts, strange animals, fairies, leprechauns, big feet and the Jersey Devil. Misplaced critters from different dimensions in close proximity to our own. Then I can believe 100's of species visiting. I can't believe those numbers being from other planets, considering the troubles of space flight. One or two races maybe..but not hundreds. I've thought about this for so long..and with the current thinking of physicists making dimensional theory much more credible...this is something I can actually understand. Places like the Bermuda Triangle, Stonehenge and so many other energy spots could be places where the fabric is thinner and gateways are possible. If that's the case..it also explains why they aren't too keen about us with Nukes (explosions would effect the worlds that are in proximity to ours like some ripple effect)...it makes sense that they would be keeping an eye on us as potential dangers to their own realities. I keep seeing this doorway in my mind..with a guard at the gate....and I have a feeling it means something very important. If the world is going to go through some rough upheavals..maybe some people who are not a threat, will be invited through. I think...it may be so.
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Post by lois on Jun 24, 2011 22:39:31 GMT -6
Where ever I was all night that night, did something to my head. Do you think they just turn off there beams and lights and sit there while abductees are aboard?? I mean if one is taken into space in these machines of theirs it must be safe for our human body. If we slip in time, that must be safe also.
You hear many talk about being aboard but not where the ship is. I doubt any one would know if they did observe the outside of the ship.. Night stars is probably all they would see. Maybe!
I once had a dream I was with two beings, and was walking with them at night. I did not want to look at them, from my own fear. It was night and I could look up. I seen many moons where ever I was in this dream. It was sort of light out. The ground was hard and clay like rock beneath my feet is what it felt like.. We entered some building, the only structure in the dream. I remember I did not want to go inside this place .. I was terrified of it. That is when I woke up.. I have never had a dream of any kind like it since.. It was about 15 years ago. Same time I had the flyover dream. These are the closet I have ever come to dreaming anything, close to ufo subject.
It was like 27 years later, with no dreams in between since my encounter. And yet it may not mean a thing, but why only these two around the same time?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 0:57:40 GMT -6
They probably don't need to 'take' people anywhere in their ships. As far as I know..the one I was in never left the ground...if it did I had no awareness. All they need is the time to take their samples. There are lots of private areas right here on the planet..no need for them to leave it...IMO
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Post by lois on Jun 25, 2011 13:47:14 GMT -6
Yes many say they are taking to a military place.
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Post by skywalker on Jun 26, 2011 8:56:50 GMT -6
I use to look at the "visit" I had as a bad thing,,, but Im just not sure anymore if it was bad. If I only knew why, it would solve the riddle. Knowing in itself that were not alone in this vast universe was the biggest bonus of this experience which solved the mysterious question Id had for many years knowing we couldnt be the only ones out there. I did feel pain during their procedure, but Ive felt pain much ,much worse than that and they didnt take my family or me away. I know this will sound crazy, but if they needed to come back later, although it would bother me in many ways, I guess a part of me wouldnt mind IF I knew it was for the good of humanity OR if it helped them in some way. I would actually like to take a ride out in space if they would let me see the view.I would also like to see the inside/outside of their craft and see how it works. As long as they dont go out of bounds with their procedures,i.e. anal probes, needles in the eye and things of that sort, than I dont have a problem. The minute they did, they would have a fight on board !!! Its like when I telepathically told the leader,"if you harm my family I will hunt you down",,, I meant it and Im sure it got the message . The fact knowing they made an attempt to comfort me by bringing xxxxx in to show me she was o.k. went a long way . It told me something, and that is that something in them partially cares for our feelings. Im sorry for those who had bad experiences and dont know what to say, so I guess ill leave it alone from here. Ive always been one of them guys who would climb a mountain because it was there. I know what you are saying, dude. Sometimes I feel the same way about my own experiences. In spite of all of the pain and the nightmares I have had to endure because of those little gray goobers there are times I really wish they would come back. It's kind of hard to explain. Maybe it's like that Stockholm Syndrome that some kidnappees and hostages experience where the victims start to relate to their abductors. Or it might just be a curious desire to know the truth. Who knows?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 10:12:29 GMT -6
I was so young and so scared..that it caused so much damage I wasn't even aware of until I started to remember it...then it explained soooo much throughout my life. I'm left with thinking that any 'civilization' that could cause that much damage so casually..doesn't need to be on my planet. There is that childhood part of me that wants to punch em in the nose...just once. The rational adult part of me wants to understand why they would hijack a couple of kids out for some fun on a weekend horseback ride...and wants to understand why they wouldn't care that their actions would have consequences for the kids. I can almost understand them nabbing adults and taking scientific samples..almost. It's still doing something against another's will..injecting aspects of fear, humiliation, drama and confusion into lives. Over all..doesn't that tend to say "Earth creature, your opinion doesn't matter in the least to me..you are insignificant and weak..now lie down and shut up"? I'm not so sure why people get so excited about them being here..they haven't shown any inclination to be a help to us..or any particular aggression toward us. Apathetic I think is the word I want...indifferent. I've narrowed it down (personal narrowing) to the only explanation that makes some sense to me. If our actions might effect them in some way..then they would want to monitor us and be ready to step in..preventing, not us damaging us..but causing them problems. Dimensions next to ours...realities close enough to ours to be effected if we do something dumb. As for the sampling..the only thing I can think of is a study on our physical selves to see what would need to be altered if they ever want to or feel they need to save some of our species. As we might study endangered animals to see what habitats they might require. I really think most of them are 'watchers' .. and we're probably the punishment detail. They get sent to keep an eye on us like KP duty in the army. Hope I'm wrong.
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Post by god on Jun 27, 2011 8:31:31 GMT -6
I was so young and so scared..that it caused so much damage I wasn't even aware of until I started to remember it...then it explained soooo much throughout my life. I'm left with thinking that any 'civilization' that could cause that much damage so casually..doesn't need to be on my planet. There is that childhood part of me that wants to punch em in the nose...just once. The rational adult part of me wants to understand why they would hijack a couple of kids out for some fun on a weekend horseback ride...and wants to understand why they wouldn't care that their actions would have consequences for the kids. I can almost understand them nabbing adults and taking scientific samples..almost. It's still doing something against another's will..injecting aspects of fear, humiliation, drama and confusion into lives. Over all..doesn't that tend to say "Earth creature, your opinion doesn't matter in the least to me..you are insignificant and weak..now lie down and shut up"? I'm not so sure why people get so excited about them being here..they haven't shown any inclination to be a help to us..or any particular aggression toward us. Apathetic I think is the word I want...indifferent. I've narrowed it down (personal narrowing) to the only explanation that makes some sense to me. If our actions might effect them in some way..then they would want to monitor us and be ready to step in..preventing, not us damaging us..but causing them problems. Dimensions next to ours...realities close enough to ours to be effected if we do something dumb. As for the sampling..the only thing I can think of is a study on our physical selves to see what would need to be altered if they ever want to or feel they need to save some of our species. As we might study endangered animals to see what habitats they might require. I really think most of them are 'watchers' .. and we're probably the punishment detail. They get sent to keep an eye on us like KP duty in the army. Hope I'm wrong. You are not wrong. That "civilization" you are so afraid of, the one that could cause so much damage so casually, as you say, is on this planet...It has been on this planet for thousands of years and it's called "humanity" or "human race" better, as humanity has generally a positive connotation. The behavior you mention is common practice in dictatorships all around the world and loosely used by “non-dictatorial” - some called this democracy - governments’ agencies that have been taught, as part of their training programs, that any torture practice is valid as long as “intelligence” or “scientific knowledge” is obtained in the process. The age of the victim is not an issue for this “trained personnel”. No race on this planet has less disregard for their own than the human race. Your answer Jo is most probably not out there, but much closer. GOD
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2011 13:41:07 GMT -6
Maybe so God..I wouldn't discount the possibility but it's not one I subscribe to. I actually haven't been looking 'out there' I think it's considerably closer than that but none the less 'alien' to our terms of thinking. You might find this a bit odd..but I don't think in terms of democracy or dictatorship or communism, I have no need for politics or religion. I live my life within the parameters I'm subjected to..I feed, clothe and support my family the best way I know how to and never turn down work when it's offered. I've done my level best to create a bubble for my family and I..and because I DO have faith I spend a fair amount of time thanking God for all He has done for me because I consider myself very blessed. I never have understood why people think religion and God are synonymous. I have a wonderful family, 3 magnificent children who have respect, work even on their days off and in turn love their mom and live close enough for me to 'spoil'. I don't need fancy 'trappings' or 'things' to make my life good...and I'd actually rather think my friend and I were abducted by beings from elsewhere than our own government and honestly can't see why they would bother with two teenagers back in the 60's. Someday..I do want to understand that one There are things we don't understand..it's not our time to..but it will be one day. Now..if you really were MY God..you'd have told me not to be too harsh on the rest of your kids (wherever in the universe they may be) because you love them all dearly and equally...because..that's what MY God would tell me. Ever notice that I'm the only one in here who talks with you? Does no one else talk to God anymore? That's pretty sad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2011 13:52:48 GMT -6
God said: "No race on this planet has less disregard for their own than the human race. Your answer Jo is most probably not out there, but much closer." God, I do believe you mean "Less regard" or "More disregard". Male lions eat the cubs of other male lions in African because they are not their own. I don't think human males eat the children of other males... at least I have never heard about such a thing taking place... ~shrug~ Jo, I talk to God a lot of the time. I just don't normally use the internet as my medium. I thanked Him yesterday actually because I had forgotten to wash the hair conditioner out of the bathtub as I was rushing late for work (I dropped the jar and it splattered all over the tub, and I THOUGHT I had rinsed it all out but had not evidently). I went to take a shower the next day and it was still slippery- so slippery I almost fell. I thanked God for not giving my parents the desire to take a shower the day before, because I know for certain my mother would have fallen and hurt herself had she entered the shower.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2011 16:56:42 GMT -6
Sometimes..wee small miracles are the VERY best ones
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Post by god on Jun 28, 2011 8:42:31 GMT -6
Now..if you really were MY God..you'd have told me not to be too harsh on the rest of your kids (wherever in the universe they may be) because you love them all dearly and equally...because..that's what MY God would tell me. Ever notice that I'm the only one in here who talks with you? Does no one else talk to God anymore? That's pretty sad. Jo; Free will, my dear...free will. GOD will only be yours if you want it to be that way. And again, you are right; humanity is just a "kid"- probably more of a toddler - in this creation. Still messing up grandma's kitchen with total disregard (is this time right, Loreley???) for the rest of the family sense of tidiness. However, humankind's "future" is still very promising. It will learn, but in the process it will break a few glasses, make some siblings upset and get a few bruises. GOD can only nod its head and have patience… but it’s never harsh @ Loreley: In the news yesterday...."A 26-year-old German man has been sentenced to life in prison for eating the flesh of two young teenagers and then murdering them. The man known as the 'Cannibal Killer', who can be identified only as "Jan O", kidnapped the two children. He wounded them, ate their flesh, drank their blood and then murdered them. The cannibalism continued after they had died. The judge, Ralf Gunther, said the crimes committed in woods just outside the town of Bodenfelde were "excessively violent" and represented "a just about unimaginable dimension of injustice". In mid-November 2010, a 14-year-old girl, who can be named only as "Nina B", disappeared from her home in Bodenfelde, 21 miles north of Kassel..." Lions do it for their own survival..... GOD
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 10:24:28 GMT -6
There seems to be no end to the 'creativity' of the depraved But lets talk 'free will' for a moment because I think that's a huge misnomer. As an example..the cannibal..he gets up that morning and decides to exercise his free will by snacking on children. His free will just became theirs because they sure as heck didn't exercise free will in being his blue plate special. Free will seems to only be the gift of the strong imposing that will on the weak. Unless you're of the notion their free will might be exercised in deciding not to scream. It just doesn't compute for me and I have yet to have anyone adequately explain it. A father wakes up here in San Diego and figures his cash flow problems are bad enough to take his own life..but he includes the lives of his children in his decision. He made the choice for them nor would they have been alone..they had a mother. I can absolutely understand a person's time being done here on this planet and when it is our time..there is no getting around it...I can embrace that but I can't get my brain wrapped around free will because as I see it..someone somewhere is getting shafted by someone else's 'free will'. Or maybe in the next life..they get their turn to have it? The serial killer who enjoyed abducting women..using tourniquet's to close off blood supply then sever all four limbs (a pair at a time) leaving them to know...which would be the last to go and he did this days apart. As I said..no end to the 'creativity' of the depraved. I'm very unconvinced that our race needs to spread to the stars
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god
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Post by god on Jun 28, 2011 11:17:08 GMT -6
There seems to be no end to the 'creativity' of the depraved But lets talk 'free will' for a moment because I think that's a huge misnomer. As an example..the cannibal..he gets up that morning and decides to exercise his free will by snacking on children. His free will just became theirs because they sure as heck didn't exercise free will in being his blue plate special. Free will seems to only be the gift of the strong imposing that will on the weak. Unless you're of the notion their free will might be exercised in deciding not to scream. It just doesn't compute for me and I have yet to have anyone adequately explain it. A father wakes up here in San Diego and figures his cash flow problems are bad enough to take his own life..but he includes the lives of his children in his decision. He made the choice for them nor would they have been alone..they had a mother. I can absolutely understand a person's time being done here on this planet and when it is our time..there is no getting around it...I can embrace that but I can't get my brain wrapped around free will because as I see it..someone somewhere is getting shafted by someone else's 'free will'. Or maybe in the next life..they get their turn to have it? The serial killer who enjoyed abducting women..using tourniquet's to close off blood supply then sever all four limbs (a pair at a time) leaving them to know...which would be the last to go and he did this days apart. As I said..no end to the 'creativity' of the depraved. I'm very unconvinced that our race needs to spread to the stars …So, you do believe there is a”next life”? From that premise you may conclude that death is only distressing for the ones left behind, as the ones that “experience’ death would only go to a different form of life –another dimension, or plane (words are always limited when defining the unknown…) and they would essentially be still “alive”, maybe a real “life”, maybe the real beginning. This principle is only valid if such a thing as God actually “exists’ and this is where “free will” comes in. You may choose to believe or not to believe and then it will not really matter if there is such a thing as God or not as it is you and only you the one that will decide what “your” God’s teachings are, but that is as far as it will go. And again I agree, the term is misused for all the wrong reasons. GOD
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 13:34:37 GMT -6
So it applies to belief in God or the hereafter? I already know that life continues, I've seen it and in that I think I'm more fortunate than a lot of people out there. Death is transitional..not final. Doesn't mean we can't be wonderfully absorbed in speculation and wondering and anticipation..and it definitely means we need to live each day we have as though it were the last one here..it could be..never know. So..dragging out the speculation..perhaps the cannibals and serial killers get fielded in one 'dimensional' direction and those making some serious humanitarian progress move dimensionally 'upward'. I have seen 'levels' or tiers.. something along those lines but then I've seen some fairly odd stuff recently. It leads me to believe..that we're quickly moving toward 'different' times or at the very least interesting ones
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 13:44:55 GMT -6
I don't know about you God, but I don't know any cannibals personally. Cannibalism is a very rare and unusual thing nowadays, especially in America and Europe.
But... ALL male lions eat the cubs of other male lions.
So... you are saying it is OK for cannibalism in the animal kingdom... but cannibalism is not OK for humans to do?
Why this double standard? We all evolved on this planet, didn't we? Essentially- we humans ARE a part of the animal kingdom.
But... I suppose you are just saying that "we" should know better than the other animals... after all... rape does not exist in the animal kingdom... does it?
If a chimpanzee steals the banana of another chimpanzee... he doesn't go to jail... does he?
If you ask me... dogs are a lot more vicious than people are. I remember back in high school my boyfriend's cat got eaten alive by two neighbor dogs. Are you going to tell me that those dogs ate the cat (who was running away from them) for their own survival too when they are fed by their owners every day? That happens a lot more often than people eating other people. A lot more often.
Dogs attack people for no reason more often than people do. They just don't have sophisticated weapons. People are just more intelligent than the beasts of this world. We should know better... and most of us do know better thanks to You.
And that is why we were chosen by You to take care of the animals on this planet. Because we are better than the animals are. We are not the worst. We are the best- although the best have their flaws as well. That's what God said in the Bible anyway. Have You changed Your mind after all these years?
Perhaps the Good Book needs to be revised...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 14:44:34 GMT -6
I would have to say that animals are instinctive. Chickens are omnivores..so are pigs..they'll eat anything they come across including their own kind. You really don't want to eat them unless they've been domestically raised. We, however, are supposed to have the moral sense and ethics to NOT eat our own kind..we have all those lovely other things to eat. Reminds me of Soylent Green...shudder. To think my favorite aunt could end up in human biscuits..is just not kosher. Um..literally. I don't think it's a double standard Lorelei. Animals aren't given our thought processes or intelligence or sense of right and wrong. Which maybe would apply to visiting aliens..should they want to eat us. It's really not all that rare. Recently a guy was caught with a human liver stew..and a guy in Japan first killed then had sex with, then ate his classmate. He's now a popular celebrity over there. It's enough to make me happy with a V8®
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 15:04:07 GMT -6
Jo wrote: "I don't think it's a double standard Lorelei. Animals aren't given our thought processes or intelligence or sense of right and wrong." That's what I said . At least, that is what I was trying to say. I answered my own question you see. God instilled in us a sense of right and wrong... and that is why we are here. We know better... or... at least we should... Unfortunately though, some of us give in to our animal instincts which we also possess... but there are not nearly as many of these horrific cases of cannibalism you and God both seem to be coming up with with us humans. Animals do it far more often. And there is a reason for that as you stated. We are animals too though, and that is why some people do these things... I remember one story I read about a young woman who put her newborn baby in a microwave because its crying was annoying her. She put it in the microwave for half an hour and went off back to bed. That story made me so sick. I was upset for days over that one. She claimed she didn't remember doing it the next morning. Everything on this planet is savage. Everything. It's a dog eat dog world. That is the way it always has been, and that is the way it always will be. Survival competition is not an easy game to play. Man and beast alike get hurt in the process... but Man knows better thanks to God. If God wanted a perfect place where everyone got along and nobody did anything wrong, he would have made this place that way IMO. He didn't. Obviously. Why? Only He knows for sure. All we can do is speculate and pretend we understand His will. In my humble opinion, we are not, and never were meant to understand why things are the way they are. Nobody on this Earth can pretend to know. Welcome to the jungle.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 19:22:53 GMT -6
Yep. It's been a fun thread anyway..some of them never even rate an answer anymore
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Post by skywalker on Jun 28, 2011 19:30:08 GMT -6
You are not wrong. That "civilization" you are so afraid of, the one that could cause so much damage so casually, as you say, is on this planet...It has been on this planet for thousands of years and it's called "humanity" or "human race" better, as humanity has generally a positive connotation. The behavior you mention is common practice in dictatorships all around the world and loosely used by “non-dictatorial” - some called this democracy - governments’ agencies that have been taught, as part of their training programs, that any torture practice is valid as long as “intelligence” or “scientific knowledge” is obtained in the process. The age of the victim is not an issue for this “trained personnel”. No race on this planet has less disregard for their own than the human race. Your answer Jo is most probably not out there, but much closer. I do agree with some of what was said here. People do horrible things to one another. People sometimes seem to be experts on coming up with horrible things to do to one another. It is not all people that are doing it though. There is a very small minority of the population that causes the vast majority of the problems. There are also a lot of good people who go out of their way to help others, even to the point of jeopardizing or even sacrificing their own lives. As long as there are good people there is still hope for humanity. As for what it is that is going around abducting people, I agree that some of these abductions are committed by humans, whether it be the military or somebody else. I also think some of them are being committed by nonhuman beings. What these things are and where they come from I do not know, but I think that comparing them to the dictators of the world is a bit of a stretch. No alien beings have done the same amount of damage that Stalin or Hitler did. If they were that evil we would no longer be here. I tend to think of them as something similar to scientists conducting "experiments" or whatever it is they are doing on what they consider to be a lesser species (us). They treat us the same way that we treat other animals. No better, no worse. Does that make them better or worse than humans? I would say it makes us about equal.
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god
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Post by god on Jun 28, 2011 20:54:17 GMT -6
So it applies to belief in God or the hereafter? I already know that life continues, I've seen it and in that I think I'm more fortunate than a lot of people out there. Death is transitional..not final. Doesn't mean we can't be wonderfully absorbed in speculation and wondering and anticipation..and it definitely means we need to live each day we have as though it were the last one here..it could be..never know. So..dragging out the speculation..perhaps the cannibals and serial killers get fielded in one 'dimensional' direction and those making some serious humanitarian progress move dimensionally 'upward'. I have seen 'levels' or tiers.. something along those lines but then I've seen some fairly odd stuff recently. It leads me to believe..that we're quickly moving toward 'different' times or at the very least interesting ones It applies to both, as they are intertwined with each other. If you believe/know there is after life it is because you want and need to transcend. Transcendence is the core of any belief in any deity as you will want to be part of it, become one with it. And note that I am not referring to religion, though it also applies to religion at some point. Don’t worry too much about the “bad” there is around as just about everything is relative and, again, it is your option to believe what is right and what is wrong, your option to believe if there is a God or not. “Oddities” have always occurred; it’s just that you are not fully aware of them until some of them impact your own personal perception. Your nose is always on your face, but you hardly ever notice it until it bleeds. GOD
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