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Post by skywalker on Oct 10, 2011 21:46:14 GMT -6
Here is the historical marker I saw in Franklin, Kentucky. It was erected to honor Captain Thomas Mantell who died while chasing a "UFO" in 1948. His plane crashed after Mantell supposedly flew too high in pursuit of the object and blacked out due to lack of oxygen. Many people have offered theories about what Captain Mantell was really chasing but no definitive answers have yet been found. The military originally claimed he was chasing Venus then years later changed their story and said he was chasing a "skyhook" balloon. Since they admittedly lied the first time there is no reason to believe them the second. Another interesting though entirely coincidental fact is that Mantell was both born and died in the same town of Franklin, Ky. Captain Thomas F. Mantell, Jr.
Born in Franklin, Ky., 30 June 1922. Graduated Male High School, Louisville. Joined army Air Corps, 16 June 1942. Graduated Flight School, 30 June 1943. During WWII, Mantell assigned to 440th Troop Carrier Group, 96th Troop Carrier Squadron, 9th Air Force. Awarded Distinguished Flying Cross, and Air Medal w/3 OLCs for heroism. Following the war returned to Louisville. Joined newly organized Kentucky Air National Guard, assigned as Flight Leader, "C" Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron. Kentucky Air National Guard on 16 February 1947. 7 January 1948, while on training flight with three other P-51Ds (Mustang) Mantell was directed by flight tower at Godman Field to pursue an unidentified flying object. While in pursuit of object, died in plane crash near this site. The story of Mantell's death while chasing UFO made headlines across the country. Intense military investigation of incident became part of Project SIGN later BLUEBOOK, the military's investigations into UFOs. Much speculation and conjecture has been written about the incident, it is still uncertain what Mantell was pursuing at the time of the crash. Mantell is the first flight casualty of the Kentucky Air National Guard. Buried Zachary Taylor National Cemetery, Louisville, Ky.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2011 0:00:49 GMT -6
Too many unsolved mystery's
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Post by paulette on Oct 11, 2011 10:16:29 GMT -6
I am impressed that whoever put up the plaque did not dishonor him by saying he was chasing the moon, Venus, or a weather balloon.
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Post by spotless38 on Oct 11, 2011 10:54:18 GMT -6
Thanks Sky . As close as I live in Ky I still have not been able to get there . But I will sometime soon Ron
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Post by lois on Oct 11, 2011 23:59:04 GMT -6
Some one from military personel said he arrived on the sceen right after they took the body. He said it was so strange no blood what soever. It will always be a mystery. I have my own thoughts on it..
It is nice they put up this marker..Not sure were this location is in kentucky...
They rushed him off to Arlington so fast his family never seen his body.. I thought that was strange also.. He was a war hero, but had he planned on being buried there before this event.. ?? I wonder?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 4:57:44 GMT -6
Thanks for the picture and the reminder, sky!
Markers are important. We should remember.
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Post by skywalker on Oct 12, 2011 8:43:33 GMT -6
The marker is just off exit 2 on I-65 in Franklin, Kentucky. It's almost at the Tennessee state line. Spotless told me where it was. I probably drove right by it a hundred times without even knowing it was there.
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Post by lois on Dec 18, 2011 22:02:58 GMT -6
I have tried to find Richard Miller for years, he was stationed here in Illinois the time of Mantell's encounter. He could hear Mantell's conversation with the tower..
Here Is an insert.. link will follow..
Another witness, Richard T. Miller, said he was in the Operations Room of Scott Air Force Base in Belleville, Illinois, during the time of the Mantell chase and heard the radio talk between the Godman tower operators and the pursuit planes. Miller claimed to have heard Mantell's last radio transmission, which was, "My God, I see people in this thing!" He said in a subsequent briefing he learned that according to the crashed F-51's instruments, Mantell had flown for more than an hour after his fuel ran out.
"No one could account for this," recalled Miller. He also said that farmer Mays did not specifically say he saw an explosion. "He said as the aircraft reached tree-top level, it was enveloped by a brilliant white flash of light. This light was so bright. It was like looking at the sun. The aircraft appeared to fall out of this light and pancake into the ground. Whatever this brilliant light was, it brought the aircraft out of a spin, and slowed its rate of descent . . . Some mysterious force had somehow interfered with the crash of this aircraft. When the plane hit the ground, Captain Mantell's shoulder straps broke, he flew forward over the control stick, and it impaled him through the chest. That is how Captain Mantell died."
Miller said the morning after Mantell's crash, investigators concluded that Mantell died "pursuing an intelligently controlled unidentified flying object" but that evening, Air Technical Intelligence Center officers from Wright-Patterson AFB arrived and ordered all personnel to turn over any materials relating to the crash. "Then after we had turned it over to them, they said they had already completed the investigation," he said. "I was no longer a skeptic. I had been up to that time. Now I wondered why the Government had gone to all of the trouble of covering it up, to keep it away from the press and the public."
Supporting Miller's version of Mantell's crash is the testimony of Captain James F. Duesler, who in 1997 was retired and living in England. In a recent interview, Duesler stated that he was one of several military observers who saw the UFO hovering over Godman Field in 1948. A pilot and crash investigator, Duesler described the UFO as a "strange gray-looking object" which looked like a rotating inverted ice cream cone.
Duesler visited the crash site shortly after Mantell's body had been removed, and was puzzled by the wreckage. "The wings and tail section had broken off on impact with the ground and were a short distance from the plane," he recalled. "There was no damage to the surrounding trees and it was obvious that there had been no forward or sideways motion when the plane had come down. It just appeared to have "belly flopped" into the clearing. There was very little damaged to the fuselage, which was in one piece, and no signs of blood whatsoever in the cockpit. There was no scratching on the body of the fuselage to indicate any forward movement and the propeller blade bore no tell-tale scratch marks to show it had been rotating at the time of impact, and one blade had been embedded into the ground. The damage pattern was not consistent with an aircraft of this type crashing at high speed into the ground. Because of the large engine in the nose of the plane, it would come down nose first and hit the ground at an angle. Even if it had managed to glide in, it would have cut a swath through the trees and a channel into the ground. None of these signs were present. All indications were that it had just belly flopped into the clearing. I must admit, I found this very strange."
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Post by lois on Dec 18, 2011 22:10:25 GMT -6
I have had a hard time searching for Richard Miller. Does anyone know if he is deceased?
I only read his report about 20 years ago.. It seems he would of came forward in time to the media. If he did there is no evidence of it, that I can find..
I just wish there was someway of proving, he heard the conversion with Mantell's last words.. He said the government came to his office and confiscated everything..
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Post by lois on Dec 18, 2011 22:13:42 GMT -6
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Post by skywalker on Dec 19, 2011 18:34:53 GMT -6
Have there ever been any photos released about the mantell crash? I'm sure they must have taken some during the investigation.
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Post by lois on Dec 20, 2011 0:47:24 GMT -6
I seen photos once a very long long time ago, but don't recall where? I did not have a computer then. It must of been in a TV doc. .. Oh no! it means it may be on one of my tapes. I would never find it. lol
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Post by skywalker on Dec 20, 2011 22:10:25 GMT -6
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Post by spotless38 on Dec 20, 2011 22:20:04 GMT -6
I had heard that the plane had pan caked to the ground . One strange thing is that they found part of his brain a few feet from one of the wings and the canopy was still closed . Very strange
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Post by Steve on Dec 21, 2011 2:56:59 GMT -6
Well, not that strange. The canopy frame was locked, but the canopy Plexiglas itself was blown out by the violent ground impact - the wings having torn off in the violent flat spin on the way down - the starboard side of the fuselage (from the photos) embedded into the ground. It explains much how the 'cockpit contents' lets just say were nearby. Basically splattered. The wings which broke away in the flat spin came down separately nearby too. The top three series of photos show the main landing gear. The second row L to R - the Packard / RR Merlin engine, then the cockpit area with canopy gone along with what maybe left of Mantell, then the starboard wing laying upright - see the three holes in the wing leading edge for the .50 cal. guns. Third row photos, might be a firewall, an oil tank which was behind the engine, and guts. Middle picture shows a piece of the tail and tail spar frame. right photo - the engine on it's side half buried, prop. Lower crash photo - wing section and wing spar. Found some interesting websites that have thrashed over this earlier. Many links showing the original crash report documents. One is a project SIGN document reporting no radiation found in the crash debris for instance. Two classic cases, the Mantell crash and the Kecksburg alleged UFO crash in 1964 have very ordinary conventional explanations IMO. I think many reports suggest ET's. But I have strong doubts about any Mantell crash and the Kecksburg incident theories trying hard to convince ET influence in those particular cases. Steve www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/11/621807/-Saturday-Night-Uforia:-The-death-of-Capt-Mantell,-Part-2-(Matters-of-National-Interest-Part-5) www.nicap.org/mantell/mantell_part_2_17.htm
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Post by skywalker on Dec 21, 2011 7:50:58 GMT -6
That plane looks pretty much splattered all over the place. That's what I would expect a plane to look like after a huge crash.
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Post by Steve on Dec 21, 2011 21:47:27 GMT -6
Way back in college at my local airport job, about the only 'cockpit contents' I usually ever had to worry about was cleaning up the plane after a student pilot got air sick. I was lucky, in three years, no wing tip dings with the fuel truck, and no airsickness to clean up, seems it always happened on the other guy's shift. Washed and parked (taxi) plenty of planes though.
Saw a few crashes and near crashes though. One crash and burn, no survivors, one that tried to take off too soon and did bumpzie-daisy the whole length of the runway while having a perfect paannamic view of the whole thing sitting on top of the truck (vultures row?). He went into the grass between the runways, manage to get airborne just clearing the golf course, and did a half circuit in the pattern, promptly landed and put the plane back in the hanger and counted his blessing and cleaned his pants.
One pilot did not do a pre-flight inspection, and signaled me to approach while the engine was running. I watched him and his plane loaded with wondering passengers why they could not taxi out. The pilot forgot to unchain the tie downs! I ran over while the engine was still running, unhooked him, then while the passengers watched, I re-enacted the scene from Mad Mad Mad world, were the old woman by the old biplane made the sign of the cross blessing the plane. It was a deliberate joke to get the passengers and pilots attention. As in like please wake up or die?
One man hand propped his Piper Cherokee with a painted nose art called 'Super Mex' (no not the golfer), he forgot to set his parking brake, and the plane took off without him...he ran after it then climbed onto the wing, but slid off just as the plane bucked a few times and nosed in. Phew. Many times a pilot would trade up to a plane with retracting landing gear, but would chronically belly land forgetting to use his landing check list. Too many rich people who think they can do..... anything.
Saw Bill Lear overshoot the runway twice in heavy rain, he finally landed still too far down the runway and hydroplaned all the way and went off the end of the runway (golf course again), the executives stepping out of the Learjet and waded through deep mud. The younger pilot who should have landed the plane, instead of the ole man.... quit on the spot. Bill Lear should have had his licenses taken away. Lots of stories. The California airport will remain nameless to protect the guilty.
Steve
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2011 23:26:38 GMT -6
"The California airport will remain nameless to protect the guilty."
~smirk~
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Post by Steve on Dec 22, 2011 15:32:30 GMT -6
"The California airport will remain nameless to protect the guilty." ~smirk~ Okay, okay....Concord, California's Buchanan Field. Too long ago for it to matter now anyway. ;D Steve
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Post by skywalker on Dec 22, 2011 19:32:50 GMT -6
Way back in college at my local airport job, about the only 'cockpit contents' I usually ever had to worry about was cleaning up the plane after a student pilot got air sick. I was lucky, in three years, no wing tip dings with the fuel truck, and no airsickness to clean up, seems it always happened on the other guy's shift. Washed and parked (taxi) plenty of planes though. Saw a few crashes and near crashes though. One crash and burn, no survivors, one that tried to take off too soon and did bumpzie-daisy the whole length of the runway while having a perfect paannamic view of the whole thing sitting on top of the truck (vultures row?). He went into the grass between the runways, manage to get airborne just clearing the golf course, and did a half circuit in the pattern, promptly landed and put the plane back in the hanger and counted his blessing and cleaned his pants. That's funny. ;D That's even more funny. ;D ;D This is the one that I cracked up on and just about died while rolling around on the floor laughing hysterically. I can just picture some clown doing that. ;D ;D ;D I'm still laughing. ;D
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Post by auntym on Jan 8, 2013 14:42:14 GMT -6
www.legacy.com/ns/news-story.aspx?t=the-mantell-ufo-incident&id=1202
The Mantell UFO IncidentWritten by Linnea Crowther 1/7/2013 More than 65 years after Roswell became the top location in UFOlogy, believers in UFOs have come to be seen as a little… kooky. We joke about probes and little green men, brushing off stories of close encounters as made-up. We may want to believe, but most of us go through our lives safe in the knowledge that we're the sane ones – and the people who think aliens have visited earth are clearly silly, misguided and delusional. Tell that to Thomas Mantell. He was a WWII ace pilot, honored with the Distinguished Flying Cross for courageous action and an Air Medal for heroism, who continued his military career with the Kentucky Air National Guard. It is believed he was also the first person to die while chasing a UFO. Mantell was one of four Kentucky Air National Guard pilots already in the air on January 7, 1948, when the men in the base's control tower saw a strange object in the sky. It hovered for a long time, and then quickly climbed to 10,000 feet. Mantell and his fellow pilots were told to follow it. As the object continued to climb, too high for a human without supplementary oxygen, the other pilots called off their pursuit. But Mantell continued on, determined to figure out what he was chasing. Mantell never reached the UFO – at 25,000 feet, his plane spiraled into a dive, ending in a fatal crash. Twenty minutes later, the UFO disappeared without a trace. The assumption was that Mantell flew too high and didn't have enough oxygen to breathe – so he blacked out and lost control of the plane. But according to the sensational headlines in the next day's newspapers, he had been shot down by "magnetic rays," or killed by aliens, or fallen victim to the extreme radiation emanating from the UFO. CONTINUE READING: www.legacy.com/ns/news-story.aspx?t=the-mantell-ufo-incident&id=1202AVIMOAS1·
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Post by spotless38 on Jan 8, 2013 18:40:26 GMT -6
Hey AuntyM . as you know that I live in Ky and Franklin Ky. is about 130 miles from where i live . My friend and I had discussed this many times . ( he is a x MUFON F.I.that went on his own .) He has been researching this for many years and has over 1400 pages of document reports on Cpt. Mantell. One I can tell is that the plane pan caked to the ground . The canopy was still intact . But his brains was found 50 to 75 feet from the plane . and his canopy was still locked in place . His skull was still intact . no cuts or torn apart . STRANGE ! any comments ? spotless
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Post by skywalker on Jan 8, 2013 20:30:28 GMT -6
What report said that his brains were found away from the plane? Was that an official report?
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Post by spotless38 on Jan 8, 2013 20:53:11 GMT -6
What report said that his brains were found away from the plane? Was that an official report? yes , But it was kept secret . I would say that they didn't want to start a panic
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 22:27:51 GMT -6
The problem with secret reports...is that if they are secret..who spread the findings and did someone accurately spread what he read..or was it embellished to make it a great story? Again..our world is full of he said..she said's and no hard data. The odds are..he did fly in chase of an object that took him out of the planes capability and it ended up crashing. Things happen very unexpectedly to planes. A friend of ours died a couple of months ago in a stunt plane..and he was an excellent acrobatic pilot. If a rudder cable snaps..well..the engine had 6 cylinders but only two were visible..that is how hard it impacted and he never had time to bail. So..there are many possibilities of Thomas Mantell's tragic end. I'm sure willing to speculate that he witnessed a UFO, gave chase and broke something on his plane in the process. I'd need to see the report before I'd believe the brain thing. If they removed it..they would have taken it not left behind such a trophy. IMO I do find these older reports interesting..like flight 19...is there a doorway that UFO's slip through that occasionally nabs some of our people too? What a world we have
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CitizenK
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I'm Back Guys!!! I've missed you so much!!!
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Post by CitizenK on Jan 8, 2013 22:29:46 GMT -6
Hmmm, that's one of those "I'd have to see it to believe it" kindof things. Seems to me highly unlikely and improbable . 1) Yes, strange things are prone to happening where the ETs or UFOs are concerned , however, doesn't make sense that they'd do 'that'. 2) How could even they do such a thing? I don't think they are that good at their magic tricks... :/ (and yes, magic is simply science that has yet to be explained) Again, I'd have to see it to believe it, or at least the "official" report. And I'm not saying it didn't happen, OR that anyone lied...just that I am from the 'show me' state and need further evidence to support such a claim.
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Post by lois on Jan 9, 2013 0:03:52 GMT -6
I thought I had started a thread for this topic two years ago with my vhs tapes I taped from sightings 20 years ago or more. I found the first sightings program they had on Mantell but over the years they would update. I do not see the other ones. on u tube. . They really brought people together . I loved this program. Best thing to ever come out of the SI Fi network.. I hated to see it go.
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Post by lois on Jan 9, 2013 0:25:53 GMT -6
I always believed the radio man.... Miller's statement at Scott Air Force Base right here in Belleville Illnois . He heard the entire conversation between the tower and Mantell. When he reported it the government was right there taking every paper ever written off the base.
Here is a document I a have kept. I cannot find the sighting update On Miller on u tube. I have too many ufos tapes to try and find it. This man was debunked by every one his entire life. Surprise he did not meet his death is some odd accident .
QUOTE..
Richard T. Miller, who was in the Operations Room of Scott Air Force Base in Belleville, Illinois, also made several statements regarding the crash. He was monitoring the radio talk between Mantell and Godman tower, and heard this statement very clearly.
"My God, I see people in this thing!" Now, would that be people in the balloon, or in the planet Venus? Come on people, just examine the evidence. I'll leave you with this statement.
Miller added that on the morning after the crash, at a briefing, investigators had stated that Mantell died "pursuing an intelligently controlled unidentified flying object." Now, we're on the right track
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Post by lois on Jan 9, 2013 0:33:33 GMT -6
I believe who ever was in that craft understood Mantell to ask for warfare to be put on planes to be sent up. They knew it was a hostile act. And took action. I know it is only speculation on my part. That is if Miller told the truth. And other witness told the truth in the sighting program .. Ron, I have never heard tell before about his brains. Oh my.. how awful....I did hear a witness. Someone at the crash said there was not one drop of blood in the plane. No blood. now what does that sound like?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2013 10:16:05 GMT -6
Yeah but again...these aren't reports from autopsy or anything like that. These are human hear-say and we all know how fragile that is and how misdirected it can be Discounting the brain and blood thing..I sure buy the rest of it
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