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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2014 0:06:49 GMT -6
Naturally....I truly pray you're wrong, however much sense it might make. I can't see where it says how long they were at the higher altitude but it seems to me it would take considerable time and a lot of effort to throw 227 bodies (+10 crew members) out of the plane. Brings up the question...was it on auto-pilot while the pilot did house-cleaning or did he have a lot of help. Makes sense from bad guy standpoint IF it was the plane they were after, not to keep passengers to deal with but if it was just the pilot maybe his aim was to knock them out...keep them from storming the cabin. It just doesn't seem like it would be that simple to open the door and chuck dead bodies out..unless there were several more people involved than just the pilot. Then too, you can't just set one of those planes down on a dirt airstrip and I'm sure they're working satellites overtime trying to locate anything big enough within the search radius to land one safely. What's the point in stealing one if you destroy it on landing. I still figure..the guv already knows where it is but as usual....have no intention of letting anyone else know until they have to.
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Post by swamprat on Mar 17, 2014 8:16:45 GMT -6
Very interesting. Thanks Tron!
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Post by paulette on Mar 17, 2014 20:28:28 GMT -6
Horrible speculations but the facts are - no taking credit, no ransom = probably not individually motivated terrorists and probably not about the people on board. Of course, if some of those people were useful techies, they could have received more oxygen through their masks. I'm guessing anyway...So the object of attention was the plane or getting the people on the plane alive to do whatever or to kill the people on the plane so that they wouldn't do whatever. IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2014 22:43:48 GMT -6
My daughter works at the local airport and did some asking about. She was told that the steep climb wouldn't have just killed passengers..it would have killed those in the cabin also..there are only seconds to stay at that altitude..unless (I thought) someone had planned ahead and brought a little pic-nic of extra oxygen. Like in a gym bag or something similar. For the sake of the relatives and friends of the passengers..I hope there are answers to be had. Not knowing is the worst of a tragedy.
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Post by plutronus on Mar 18, 2014 0:12:05 GMT -6
My daughter works at the local airport and did some asking about. She was told that the steep climb wouldn't have just killed passengers..it would have killed those in the cabin also..there are only seconds to stay at that altitude..unless (I thought) someone had planned ahead and brought a little pic-nic of extra oxygen. Like in a gym bag or something similar. For the sake of the relatives and friends of the passengers..I hope there are answers to be had. Not knowing is the worst of a tragedy. The pilots' oxygen supply is sourced by a different and specifically isolated air-supply subsystem, which has a much longer breath-time than that of the passenger cabin supply. Also, simply climbing to the 43,000 altitude causes the cabin seals to crack, venting the pressurized cabin gas into the surrounding lower-pressure atmosphere. The maintaining of the higher altitude for 15+ minutes was to guarantee that everyone had either expired or was significanly mentally incapacitated. As for the yakking regarding not being able to slip the airplane through the RADAR nets in that part of the world, the information is either deliberate mis-information or just classic American news-media talking-heads babbling. I have heard a lot of babbling especially on CNN. And the DHS people, we should instruct Washington to fire all of them, they have too much power and are clueless. It is embarassing. According to Russian-TV ('RT' on cable) Israel went on high alert today, they have concluded that the airplane is likely being fitted with a nuke. Any of you hearing the whispering? plutronus
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 10:10:07 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 10:47:43 GMT -6
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Post by auntym on Mar 18, 2014 10:57:02 GMT -6
nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/cnn-don-lemon-introduces-supernatural-flight-370-theories.htmlMarch 17, 2014 CNN Gives Up, Wonders About Supernatural Conspiracy Theories for Flight 370 Disappearance By Joe Coscarelli There's only so much "breaking news." After more than a week of wall-to-wall coverage on the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, much of it baseless speculation from vaguely defined experts, CNN today resorted to the most baseless of speculation from a certifiable non-expert about what "supernatural" or conspiratorial explanations there could be for the disappearance. "It's where every conspiracy falls apart: How do you keep everyone quiet?" offered Brad Meltzer, an author of political thrillers and host of the History Channel's Decoded. "I'm glad you brought that up," said host Don Lemon, who proceeded to make things much stupider. "Especially today, on a day when we deal with the supernatural, we go to church, the supernatural power of God. You deal with all of that," said Lemon, making little to no sense. "People are saying to me, why aren't you talking about the possibility — and I'm just putting it out there — that something odd happened to this plane, something beyond our understanding?" Just putting it out there! Meltzer was more than game to offer nothing of substance. "We all kind of roll our eyes at conspiracy theories, but what conspiracy theories do is they ask the hardest, most outrageous questions sometimes," he said. "But every once in a while, they're right. And that's what we have to remember here. I think why it's captured our attention is because there's no logical explanation right now." "You can say, oh, it crashed into the ocean, but where are the parts? Where are the pieces? Why did it keep going for seven hours? Why do you have a guy onboard who gives his watch and his ring to his wife and says keep this for my boys in case something happens to me?" he continued. "Something smells wrong," he concluded, having added negative knowledge. "It just smells terrible. How does a jet liner, with almost 200 people on it, disappear? [Ed. note: There were 239.] How are they just gone?" "Absolutely, absolutely," said Lemon. "Absolutely." You can get this kind of trenchant analysis 24 hours a day, if you hate yourself. WATCH VIDEO: nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/cnn-don-lemon-introduces-supernatural-flight-370-theories.html
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 13:16:43 GMT -6
Wish it were anything supernatural. The evil of our own kind is harder to accept. As far as debris? The search radius is HUGE and now we find we've probably searched in the wrong direction. You have to know where to look in a very very large world to find the needle in the haystack...especially if it doesn't want to be found. Sort of like UFO's ...all we have are theories. The most brilliant...won't even speculate because it's not productive. People like us...can't easily let things go (think Kennedy..think UFO's). We're the 'need answers' people. Have to have someone to blame or something to settle it. They KNOW it flew for 7 hours past the time the transponders were turned off. Were they sending information through a worm hole? On a space ship (very big one)...from another dimension? The friend I've mentioned with the engineering phd in aerodynamics ...just rolls his eyes at any 'theory' I crop up with. He knows more than he's letting on (he's saying nothing) which means..probably the governments do too. We're the children kept in the dark...the mushrooms in the basement. I hate the words conspiracy theory..because they make me think 'nutcases' and I'm that close to being one half of the time. I want them to be alive and well and I know they are not. Makes me feel icy inside.
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Post by auntym on Mar 18, 2014 14:11:03 GMT -6
www.aol.com/article/2014/03/18/what-if-the-missing-malaysia-plane-is-never-found/20852422/AOL.com
What if the missing Malaysia plane is never found?Mar 18th 2014 WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) -- The plane must be somewhere. But the same can be said for Amelia Earhart's. Ten days after Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappeared with 239 people aboard, an exhaustive international search has produced no sign of the Boeing 777, raising an unsettling question: What if the airplane is never found? Such an outcome, while considered unlikely by many experts, would certainly torment the families of those missing. It would also flummox the airline industry, which will struggle to learn lessons from the incident if it doesn't know what happened. While rare nowadays, history is not short of such mysteries - from the most famous of all, American aviator Earhart, to planes and ships disappearing in the so-called Bermuda Triangle. "When something like this happens that confounds us, we're offended by it, and we're scared by it," said Ric Gillespie, a former U.S. aviation accident investigator who wrote a book about Earhart's still-unsolved 1937 disappearance over the Pacific Ocean. "We had the illusion of control and it's just been shown to us that oh, folks, you know what? A really big airliner can just vanish. And nobody wants to hear that." Part of the problem, said Andrew Thomas, the editor-in-chief of the Journal of Transportation Security, is that airline systems are not as sophisticated as many people might think. A case in point, he said, is that airports and airplanes around the world use antiquated radar tracking technology, first developed in the 1950s, rather than modern GPS systems. A GPS system might not have solved the mystery of Flight 370, which disappeared March 8 while flying from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing. But it would probably have given searchers a better read on the plane's last known location, Thomas said. "There are lots of reasons why they haven't changed, but the major one is cost," he said. "The next-generation technology would cost $70 to $80 billion in the U.S." Experts say the plane's disappearance will likely put pressure on airlines and governments to improve the way they monitor planes, including handoff procedures between countries. Flight 370 vanished after it signed off with Malaysian air-traffic controllers, and never made contact with their Vietnamese counterparts as it should have. And if the plane is never found, liability issues will be a huge headache for courts. With no wreckage, it would be difficult to determine whether the airline, manufacturers or other parties should bear the brunt of responsibility. CONTINUE READING: www.aol.com/article/2014/03/18/what-if-the-missing-malaysia-plane-is-never-found/20852422/
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Post by auntym on Mar 18, 2014 14:38:13 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 15:36:28 GMT -6
For the sake of the families..I hope there can be some closure.
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Post by skywalker on Mar 18, 2014 18:48:54 GMT -6
I don't know if I can agree with this theory about the passengers being killed because the plane went too high too fast. All of the websites I've been looking at say the Boeing 777 is rated to safely fly at altitudes up to 43,100 feet. It could go higher than that but it just isn't allowed to by the regulations. Going to that height would not have depressurized the cabin unless the flight crew intentionally depressurized it and in that case I'm pretty sure it would have effected the cockpit as well as the passenger cabin. Commercial airliners are normally pressurized to an equivalent of about 8,000 feet of altitude. That cabin pressure doesn't change regardless of how high the plane goes unless they intentionally change it. Going from 30,000 to 40,000 or even 45,000 feet isn't going to have any effect on the structural integrity of the plane. There isn't that much of a difference in air pressure in just a few thousand feet as far as the plane is concerned. I don't think that going up that high would have killed the passengers either, even if the cabin had been depressurized, especially for the limited amount of time they were up there. There is still breathable air at 43,000 feet just not as much. In order to get to the altitude where there was no breathable air they would have had to go so high there wouldn't have been enough air pressure to support the plane. People have climbed Mt Everest (just under 30,000 feet) without supplemental oxygen and they spent several days doing that. The main problem that people have to deal with at high altitudes isn't lack of oxygen but rather altitude sickness. If the air pressure outside the body decreases too rapidly it can cause the capillaries in the brain and lungs to rupture which will eventually allow the brain and/or lungs to fill up with blood. That usually takes several hours or even days for it to have any effect though. A very sudden increase in altitude could cause it to happen quicker but it would have affected the pilots as well as the passengers regardless of whether or not they were breathing supplemental oxygen. Supplemental oxygen is used to overcome the effects of light-headedness and fatigue and to prevent the pilot from losing consciousness rather than to keep them from dying. The initial symptoms of altitude sickness are headaches, dizziness, fatigue and in extreme cases a loss of consciousness. Death can occur if the person does not descend to a lower altitude (or increase the surrounding air pressure) but like I said it would take quite a bit of time for that to happen. I've done quite a bit of both mountain climbing and scuba diving in my lifetime so I'm pretty familiar with the effects of altitude and air pressure on the human body. Of course I've never actually been up to 43,000 feet so I personally have no idea what it would feel like. Don't really want to find out either.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 21:02:15 GMT -6
If the pilot climbed on purpose (and radar did verify that it climbed..dived..and leveled back off at 3500 or thereabouts) I think the chances were he was either struggling with some mechanical failure or his co-pilot. Since it flew on for 7 hours..I'm guessing it wasn't mechanical failure.
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Post by skywalker on Mar 19, 2014 8:19:00 GMT -6
I was kind of wondering about the copilot. Everything I've seen in the newsmedia makes it sound like he is not even being considered as a suspect. Was he ib on it also or did the other pilot wack him over the head with something? I doubt that he would just sit there and do nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 9:36:54 GMT -6
I'm thinkin' that if one of them is up to no good...then the other is not just going to sit there meekly and unless one had a stun gun..the cabin had to be a war zone for a little bit. On the other hand maybe the sudden abrupt climb was to scare the bejesus out of whichever cabin occupant was not part of the plan. Pretty much back to the pilot. They're saying there are missing files from the pilot's flight simulator that they are trying to restore. They've never said much about the co pilot that I've read. Since the cockpit had the 'lock down' I can't see someone from the passengers area getting in there unless the door was opened. Who knows..there were ten 'attendants' maybe they were all in for a share.
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Post by auntym on Mar 19, 2014 10:54:34 GMT -6
i think there was a fight in the cockpit between the pilot and the co-pilot fighting over the controls... thats why the plane climbed as high as it did...
i once knew someone who was teaching a student how to fly, and suddenly the plane climbed high and then there was a nose dive...they were fighting over the controls... they both died... it was overheard on the radio...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 11:55:22 GMT -6
That makes the most sense to me..that there was some kind of fight in the cockpit for control of the plane and either the pilot or copilot was overcome by the other. We know from information relayed by the engines, that the plane flew for 7 hours after that...so I'm guessing the hijacker won the battle and flew the plane on to what ever arrangements he had made.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 18:08:52 GMT -6
yet another Theory..this one from someone who used to pilot that kind of plane. He says they are notorious for their landing gear catching fire...due to friction and weight. So his theory is..that when they retracted the gear (on fire) it spread to the plane and the pilots climb was an effort to put the fire out and probably did but the fire was in the process of filling everything with smoke...possibly killing everyone by smoke inhalation..the plane then went into a dive...uncontrolled until it hit 25000 feet...when the auto pilot took over and brought the plane under control. He says..the auto pilot will then divert..changing it's course. With everyone aboard dead or unable to do anything..and the electrical taking out communications..boxes...etc...the plane would then fly until it ran out of fuel then crash. He said..they should be looking in the Indian Ocean before they picked up those satellite photos...so...possibly..no conspiracy..no hijack...but malfunction.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 10:15:35 GMT -6
From satellite images, it looks like he could be right. I can't think of anything much sadder than this plane flying silently along with everyone on board either dead or disabled...until it could fly no longer...
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Post by skywalker on Mar 22, 2014 19:27:16 GMT -6
I just hope they find the plane so we can all know what happened and put an end to all the speculation. We already have enough conspiracy theories as it is. I don't want this plane to turn into another Amelia Earhart that people are still talking about a hundred years from now. Lets find out what happened and fix it so it can't happen again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 10:09:07 GMT -6
Malaysia held a press conference stating that there is enough satellite info to confirm that the plane crashed into the Indian Ocean. All agencies have figured for some time that the plane was on auto-pilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed with all aboard dead. They haven't a clue why yet. One search plane also picked up debris but until it's been analyzed that's all we're likely to get.
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Post by auntym on Mar 25, 2014 14:10:09 GMT -6
www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/25/china-protest-mh370_n_5027105.html Chinese Relatives Of Passengers Aboard Missing MH370 Flight Protest At Beijing EmbassyAP | by CHRISTOPHER BODEEN and DIDI TANG BEIJING (AP) — Furious that Malaysia has declared their loved ones lost in a plane crash without physical evidence, Chinese relatives of the missing marched Tuesday to the Malaysian Embassy, where they threw plastic water bottles, tried to rush the gate and chanted, "Liars!" The Chinese government, meanwhile, demanded that Malaysia turn over the satellite data it used to conclude that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 went down in the southern Indian Ocean with no survivors after turning back from its flight path to Beijing on March 8. Among the flight's 239 passengers, 153 were Chinese nationals, making the incident a highly emotional one for Beijing, and the government's demand reflected the desire among many Chinese relatives of passengers for more conclusive information on the plane's fate. Nearly 100 relatives and their supporters marched to the embassy in the late morning, wearing white T-shirts that read "Let's pray for MH370" as they held banners and chanted for about three hours. "Tell the truth! Return our relatives!" they shouted. There was a heavy police presence at the embassy, and a brief scuffle when some relatives tried to get past police to approach journalists, but no effort was made to break up the demonstration. The group presented a letter of protest to the embassy before getting into several buses and departing. Many of the relatives maintain they are not being told the whole truth — a not-uncommon mindset among Chinese accustomed to dealing with authorities in their own opaque, single-party communist state. Though some have expressed resignation that their relatives probably are dead, they have accused Malaysian authorities of foot-dragging and withholding information early in the search, when there might have been some chance to save the plane. "I want the truth, and I believe they have been hiding some information from us," said Wang Zhen, who was not part of Tuesday's demonstration but whose parents were aboard the missing plane. "It remains an enigma as to what happened after the plane turned around. What happened when the plane continued to fly? "I am still hoping for my parents' return, even though I understand the probability is very, very low," Wang said in a telephone interview. Chinese President Xi Jinping is sending a vice foreign minister to Kuala Lumpur as his special envoy to deal with the matter of the missing plane, the official Xinhua News Agency reported Tuesday. Deputy Foreign Minister Xie Hangsheng told Malaysia's ambassador to Beijing that China wanted to know what exactly led Malaysia to announce Monday night that the plane had been lost, China's Foreign Ministry said on its website Tuesday. CONTINUE READING: www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/25/china-protest-mh370_n_5027105.html
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2014 10:53:17 GMT -6
This is all so horribly sad. Torment for the relatives...and badly handled by Malaysia but to remember their resources are not so grand. I think others should have been involved sooner. Now..French satellite has found a debris field of over 22 objects. I know the survivors figure they can just drive there by boat and have the answers..but it's a very vast area...the ocean has currents moving stuff around constantly and while they are pinning it down slowly...Malaysia just waltzed in and told them there is no hope BUT...we haven't found anything yet. In other words...just shut up people and accept your loss. I'd be furious too if handled that way. Irritation with fools like Geraldo..on tv showing what passengers might have looked like fighting for breath...how insensitive is that? My heart goes out to the living..my prayers to the dead.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2014 11:31:27 GMT -6
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Post by skywalker on Mar 26, 2014 11:58:08 GMT -6
From the description I've heard it does sound like the debris are from the plane. We won't know for sure until they actually pick some of them up. They are also looking for the black box which is a little like finding a needle in an ocean full of haystacks but the thing does put out some sounds so it is a possibility. I still want to know what happened if for no other reason than so we can prevent it from happening again. The black box should have the answers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2014 12:40:29 GMT -6
Much, much better than the 'whispers'. The "crimea" possibly being a strategic location, a nice big plane, . . . . . shivers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2014 13:49:47 GMT -6
Oh heck yes...much better than the whispers and conspiracy theories bouncing around. Imagination doesn't have boundaries.
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Post by auntym on Mar 27, 2014 13:05:01 GMT -6
www.neonnettle.com/features/58-danger-in-the-skies-diary-of-a-real-life-fox-mulder Nick Pope On UFO's, Drones & The Missing Flight MH370By: Nick Pope on 27th March 2014 UFO believers haven’t got a good press lately. It’s the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 that’s to blame. The mystery has attracted virtually every conspiracy theorist on the face of the planet, and Googling the terms “MH370” and “aliens” brings up a long list of bizarre theories. But while some people may genuinely believe that the “Galactic Federation” abducted the aircraft, such speculation is unlikely to do much for the credibility of ufology. Which is actually a shame, because there is a serious issue here, which is in danger of being lost. When I investigated UFOs for the Ministry of Defence, few incidents were more unnerving than the cases involving near-misses between UFOs and commercial aircraft. Both the MoD and the Civil Aviation Authority had files on such incidents, but nobody really gripped the issue properly. The MoD axed its UFO project in December 2009, as part of a wider round of defence cuts, but needless to say, people haven’t stopped seeing UFOs. Indeed, when it comes to reports of near-misses between UFOs and commercial aircraft, there has been a disturbing upsurge in the number of reports. Recent incidents include a 2 December 2012 near-miss involving an Airbus on its final approach to Glasgow airport. Then on 30 December 2012 there was a near- collision involving three passenger jets, over the skies of Sussex. All of the pilots saw the UFOs, which were briefly tracked on radar. In another incident, on 19 July 2013, an Airbus nearly collided with a UFO in the skies over Reading. The cigar-shaped metallic object came so close that the pilot instinctively ducked, expecting an impact. An investigation by the UK Airprox Board concluded that it “was not possible to trace the object or determine the likely cause of the sighting”. Given the obvious safety implications, more needs to be done. I now live in America, but will be returning to the UK to give a special, one-off talk at the Maltings Theatre & Cinema in Berwick-upon-Tweed on 3 April. I’ll be using this opportunity to formally call on the government to launch a full public inquiry into this terrifying spate of near- disasters, before there’s a tragedy. In case anyone thinks this is unduly alarmist, it’s worth reading a now-declassified MoD study into UFOs, codenamed Project Condign. This intelligence study was originally classified Secret UK Eyes A and was carried out at a time when the MoD was routinely telling Parliament, the media and the public that the UFO phenomenon was of “no defence significance”. The study’s final report was entitled “Unexplained Aerial Phenomena in the UK Air Defence Region” and contained two recommendations on the air safety implications of the phenomenon. “UAP” (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) was a term that we coined, on the basis that it sounded more scientific than “UFO”. One of Project Condign’s recommendation read as follows: "No attempt should be made to out-maneuver a UAP during interception". Another recommendation stated: "At higher altitudes, although UAP appear to be benign to civil air traffic, pilots should be advised not to maneuver, other than to place the object astern, if possible". None of this is disputed. These are direct quotes from an official UK government study into UFOs! Incredibly, this was missed by the mainstream media! It doesn’t matter what people believe about UFOs. The recent spate of near-misses may involve secret prototype aircraft or drones, radio-controlled model aircraft, high-altitude balloons or any manner of other objects. It’s immaterial. If one hits an aircraft, there’s going to be a tragedy. The nightmare scenario is a terrorist using a remote-controlled model aircraft or drone to try to bring down an airliner over a major city like London. The technology exists. So let’s not ignore the threat, simply because of the pop culture baggage that the term “UFO” has. CONTINUE READING: www.neonnettle.com/features/58-danger-in-the-skies-diary-of-a-real-life-fox-mulder
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2014 16:24:02 GMT -6
There weren't any reports of sightings..and no radar tracking of anything close to the jet. New satellite feed shows over 300 floating objects in the Indian Ocean. Naturally it's possible that the pilot had to duck something and took the plane straight up...but it's just as feasible that there was a malfunction in the plane. I hope they find the black box to put an end to all of the wild theories. It's not helping the families cope. Of course the million apiece they are suing for might ease the pain. If kidnapped by UFO's I'm pretty sure they won't be able to sue..and attorneys are already filing according to an article I read. I hate this sue crazy society we've bred.
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