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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2011 21:25:02 GMT -6
Antyum, Mufon started changing big time about 5 years ago. It got real bureaucratic, rule-bound, people started parading their rank, telling other people what to do, acting like that had authority. I actually thought it was humorous, so many people telling other people what to do. I'd been in MUFON 25 years and didn't need anyone to tell me what to do. For a long time I tried to ignore it, keep my head down, than I got fired. Chuck reever had a lot to do with that. The more they tried to 'control', the more they alienated good people with great ideas away. in a top down management style, it depends on a few at the top coming up with any progressive ideas . Problem is, they never have any!
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:25:51 GMT -6
I knew why I got fired. Asking questions. Raising issues. You're not supposed to do that in MUFON. There is a climate of fear. You know if you ask questions you're stepping out of line. The last question I asked, in emails to the higher ups, was: what's the meaning of where it says on the website intake form (Report a UFO) it says you can give your OK to have your report transmitted to a "3rd party unaffiliated with MUFON." What's the meaning of that? I wanted to know.
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Mar 11, 2011 21:27:43 GMT -6
I'm curious to know about Clifford Clift. He seems like a nice guy from what I have read about him yet he also makes ruthless decisions concerning the MUFON members and State Directors. DO you know the man personally? Do you think he is the one who is really calling the shots or is somebody else pulling his strings? Like the "third party" Mr. Bigelow?
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:27:59 GMT -6
Chuck Reever had A LOT to do with it. He loves bureaucracy. He loves flow charts with carefully mapped out chains of command. And he loves to give orders. He loves to take order and give orders.
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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2011 21:28:25 GMT -6
one anonymous tip to the IRS could sink Mufon. Read Langs blog.
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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2011 21:29:10 GMT -6
I knew why I got fired. Asking questions. Raising issues. You're not supposed to do that in MUFON. There is a climate of fear. You know if you ask questions you're stepping out of line. The last question I asked, in emails to the higher ups, was: what's the meaning of where it says on the website intake form (Report a UFO) it says you can give your OK to have your report transmitted to a "3rd party unaffiliated with MUFON." What's the meaning of that? I wanted to know. Ditto here too.
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Post by auntym on Mar 11, 2011 21:30:13 GMT -6
Antyum, Mufon started changing big time about 5 years ago. It got real bureaucratic, rule-bound, people started parading their rank, telling other people what to do, acting like that had authority. I actually thought it was humorous, so many people telling other people what to do. I'd been in MUFON 25 years and didn't need anyone to tell me what to do. For a long time I tried to ignore it, keep my head down, than I got fired. Chuck reever had a lot to do with that. The more they tried to 'control', the more they alienated good people with great ideas away. in a top down management style, it depends on a few at the top coming up with any progressive ideas . Problem is, they never have any! i can't help but feel that was the plan all along---forcing good people out....and the way to do that is to have tighter control.... i never met any of the governing body of mufon, my opinion comes from what i've read....
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:31:19 GMT -6
We're not taking the position "little can be done" like Steve says. We've formed the Committee to Reform MUFON. We have the email addresses for most of the membership and we are blowing the whistle. You can't do that if you're a member cause you'll be fired. but now I've been fired, so I'm free and there are others working with me who don't care if they are fired. they are fed up. We've sent out 3 MUFON-wide mailings. One was the complete text of the Bigelow contract. We've launched a Petition calling for the Board of Directors to be elected by the members.
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sansseed
Full Member
Failure is not an option
Posts: 417
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Post by sansseed on Mar 11, 2011 21:33:02 GMT -6
I knew why I got fired. Asking questions. Raising issues. You're not supposed to do that in MUFON. There is a climate of fear. You know if you ask questions you're stepping out of line. The last question I asked, in emails to the higher ups, was: what's the meaning of where it says on the website intake form (Report a UFO) it says you can give your OK to have your report transmitted to a "3rd party unaffiliated with MUFON." What's the meaning of that? I wanted to know. I know I'm igannant to a lot about MUFON, but, based on what you stated, doesn't that defeat the purpose of MUFON? I mean, if you have an organization that is about asking questions (is it real? is it explained?) then why can you not ask questions within the organization? Any organization that becomes that bureaucratic becomes obsolete, IMO.
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Mar 11, 2011 21:33:38 GMT -6
I haven't gone on MUFON much since the forum shutdown. Is there a way to look at their cases and the results of the investigations? I've seen the reports, but would like to look into some of the cases that have happened around my area. As far as I know there is no way for the general public to see the results of the investigations. That is some of the info MUFON never releases.
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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2011 21:34:02 GMT -6
I should rack up a lot of posts here this way. Hope the proboards can handle the bandwidth... lol
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:35:51 GMT -6
Auntym--Thank you for asking. I am here really to talk about MUFON, except that that might not be of interest if the people here are not members of MUFON. So somebody should give me feedback on that. Before I got totally consumed with reforming MUFON, I was mostly wrapped up in JAR, The JOurnal of Abduction-Encounter Research, which is an email quarterly magazine on abductions. I'm not an abductee I just know that is the most important part of UFO research, because abduction research is the window into who the aliens are, and that's what we need to know.
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sansseed
Full Member
Failure is not an option
Posts: 417
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Post by sansseed on Mar 11, 2011 21:36:25 GMT -6
Here is one question that has been going through my mind..., should MUFON be reformed, or is it time for a whole new organization?
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Mar 11, 2011 21:36:50 GMT -6
We're not taking the position "little can be done" like Steve says. We've formed the Committee to Reform MUFON. We have the email addresses for most of the membership and we are blowing the whistle. You can't do that if you're a member cause you'll be fired. but now I've been fired, so I'm free and there are others working with me who don't care if they are fired. they are fed up. We've sent out 3 MUFON-wide mailings. One was the complete text of the Bigelow contract. We've launched a Petition calling for the Board of Directors to be elected by the members. But what can the members do? Most of them just pay their dues and receive their monthly journal. What power or influence do they have other than threatening to not be members anymore, which a lot of them have been doing the past few years?
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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2011 21:38:21 GMT -6
many experiencers here elaine...
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Post by lois on Mar 11, 2011 21:38:17 GMT -6
Elaine I will say Amen to that, how many times we have stated what good is this forum without the witesses to tell what is and what is not..
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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2011 21:39:32 GMT -6
Here is one question that has been going through my mind..., should MUFON be reformed, or is it time for a whole new organization? I think this may have to happen first. New organization, then a fresh start.
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:40:37 GMT -6
Thank you for asking MOrgan. Here's the theory I'm working on now, and this makes the MUFON problem something important beyond whether somebody is a member or not. My assumption is the USG finds MUFON useful and doens't want to shut it down. But in the last 5 years something got its cold hand on MUFON's throat. So I'm thinking what if the idea was to keep MUFON open as a real good information collection agency and then do things to make sure the "good" cases never got out of MUFON. That's the theory I'm working on now. When I think about Clifford, it hard to imagine he'd cooperate with an objective like that. But there are people up in MUFON who might.
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Post by lois on Mar 11, 2011 21:41:33 GMT -6
I remember when all the debunkers on the mufon forum wanted a scientific topic as us abductee's had no proof of anything.. who bringing the information out about these beings anyway..?
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Mar 11, 2011 21:42:21 GMT -6
We have a wide variety of people here. Some MUFON members, some ex-MUFON members, some who would be members if the organization wasn't so screwed up. We also have people who probably couldn't care less, or maybe they would if MUFON cared about them.
We also do have a lot of experiencers here...I would say more are than not.
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:44:50 GMT -6
Sansseed, the inconsistency you point to, it's big. A guy named Steve R was the chief investigator for California. He has over 300 cases in CMS (MUfon's computer system). He was asked to sign a statement indicating that from now on he will not contact anyone in MUFON above his RANK. oK? Now that is bizarre, anti-intellectual, ludicrous, laughable. Except that MUFON was serious. He resigned.
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Mar 11, 2011 21:45:53 GMT -6
I remember when all the debunkers on the mufon forum wanted a scientific topic as us abductee's had no proof of anything.. who bringing the information out about these beings anyway..? That's why we don't have any debunkers here, Shami. We are tired of arguing with them about swamp gas and weather balloons. Without the witnesses and experiencers they would have nothing to talk about, just like you said.
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Post by auntym on Mar 11, 2011 21:48:46 GMT -6
Auntym--Thank you for asking. I am here really to talk about MUFON, except that that might not be of interest if the people here are not members of MUFON. So somebody should give me feedback on that. Before I got totally consumed with reforming MUFON, I was mostly wrapped up in JAR, The JOurnal of Abduction-Encounter Research, which is an email quarterly magazine on abductions. I'm not an abductee I just know that is the most important part of UFO research, because abduction research is the window into who the aliens are, and that's what we need to know. i was never a member of mufon, but i was on their forum from the first month they opened it....i felt like that was my forum even though i never paid the dues....all of the problems with mufon trickled down to the forum....i witnessed debates between high ranking mufon officials and the lowly forum poster....it was interesting to say the least....i thought it was too bad the high ranking officials didn't like what the posters were saying....maybe they would still be #1 if they had listened to us.....
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Post by lois on Mar 11, 2011 21:49:04 GMT -6
I came for help. Steve was one who gave so much..
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:49:34 GMT -6
Now what if you were the USG and you wanted information to keep flowing into MUFON, but not all of it to get out. The pattern we're seeing is consistent with that. See, the idea of MUFON is MUFON is supposed to publish EVERYTHING they get. MUFON is supposed to tell the American people what is going on, what the phenomena is doing in the US. So along comes Bigelow. He tells MUFON I'll give you $672,000. All you have to do is go to work for me and give me all your information for a year. That made possible the creation of the "Star Team," which is an elite investigator group with rapid response. Bigelow paid them salaries.
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Post by Steve on Mar 11, 2011 21:52:33 GMT -6
Still helping lois, thanks.
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Post by Morgan Sierra on Mar 11, 2011 21:54:30 GMT -6
I personally think it is the government that has their hands around MUFON's throat. But since money is power and many businessmen have much influence with politicians, it could go either way. So the question would then be is Bigelow working for the government or is the government working for people like BIgelow? Whoever it is that's in charge is the one controlling MUFON and deciding their fate.
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Post by mdaisy on Mar 11, 2011 21:55:02 GMT -6
I came for help. Steve was one who gave so much.. YES! MUFON will greatly miss Steve. He's one of the reasons why I re-joined MUFON and one of the reasons why I didn't renew my membership after he was so poorly treated. The key thing MUFON seems to have forgotten is the organization was pretty well run by volunteers. YOU can not demand or require anything from volunteers. You can ASK but you can not DEMAND. MDaisy
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Post by elainedouglass on Mar 11, 2011 21:57:02 GMT -6
However, it looks to us like bigelow torpedoed the arrangement. He pulled the rug out and threw MUFON into chaos. It looked to us on the Committee to Reform MUFON at first like he was trying to destabilize MUFON. Then someone who worked on the Star Team told me he thought the program (of rapid response to important cases) was more successful than anyone expected it to be. Here's what I think was "wrong" with the Star Team program. There were too many honest eyes watching it. They began to notice cases disappearing from the computer. There were paid people watching the cases coming in from like 6 am to midnight. the cases would come in and they would assign them. And the guy in charge, Richard Lang, he insisted that some of these special cases, some at least would get published in the MUFON Journal. Me? I think he had to be fired--and he was.
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Post by mdaisy on Mar 11, 2011 21:57:18 GMT -6
Sansseed, the inconsistency you point to, it's big. A guy named Steve R was the chief investigator for California. He has over 300 cases in CMS (MUfon's computer system). He was asked to sign a statement indicating that from now on he will not contact anyone in MUFON above his RANK. oK? Now that is bizarre, anti-intellectual, ludicrous, laughable. Except that MUFON was serious. He resigned. Thanks Elaine for so clearly pointing out the significant volunteer contributions Steve has made to UFO research. And don't be bashful about your contributions either. You've done much to further UFO research. You even helped me with my UFO experiences back in the late 80s. You were about the only one who listened and tried to help. MUFON sure didn't. I think MUFON thought I was a nut case. You didn't. MDaisy
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