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Post by ufo4peace on May 2, 2012 1:51:55 GMT -6
Does anybody have any comments on what Elaine said? Do you think that what she is trying to do is a worthwhile goal? Is she wasting her time or do you think she actually has a chance to succeed? Do you think MUFON is even worth saving? I see a lot of cult-like behaviour from former MUFON members. I noticed Skywalker especially still goes to MUFON's forum to complain. There comes a point where you just need to let things go and move forward. That being said I think a lot of MUFON's problems has to do with the changing times.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 3:23:26 GMT -6
Does anybody have any comments on what Elaine said? Do you think that what she is trying to do is a worthwhile goal? Is she wasting her time or do you think she actually has a chance to succeed? Do you think MUFON is even worth saving? I see a lot of cult-like behaviour from former MUFON members. I noticed Skywalker especially still goes to MUFON's forum to complain. There comes a point where you just need to let things go and move forward. That being said I think a lot of MUFON's problems has to do with the changing times. Here is the emboldened definition of the word "Cult" from dictionary.com: dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult?s=t cult [kuhlt] Show IPA
noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
Well, I dunno about you UFO4peace, but I do't think anybody here worships aliens- I know I don't and neither does Jo and Skywalker doesn't either. I personally wouldn't ever want to see one of them ever again. You see- I have personally seen them so I do know they exist- but I do not worship them. I mean, I don't get up out of bed and pray to the Gray Gods every morning... lol... I guess UFO4peace has learned about the secret purple robes we wear to our secret gatherings on Sundays in Paulette's basement in Canada... ;D ;D ;D UFO4peace- your igannance never ceases to amaze me. Please describe in detail how Skywalker exhibits "Cult-like behavior". I also ask you to please explain what constitutes "Cult-like behavior"... if you can back up your statement that is... and I'm pretty sure you can't.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 2, 2012 10:11:12 GMT -6
It means you have a strong emotional attachment to something that becomes a part of your identity. Your own identity is threatened when the attachment is broken creating strong feelings to the point of delusion and obsession. In reality a person may have been trying to fill a void or inadequacy in their own life by becoming to attached to an organization. Sometimes you see this type of behavior with disgruntled employees.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 12:51:18 GMT -6
What about the secret hand shake? Ufo4Peace..my brain doesn't even WANT to understand you. Do you realize that Sky is the ONLY person advocating you being able to stay here? The rest of us would have happily jettisoned you out the nearest air lock long ago..but he keeps telling us you've changed..that you're better, less obnoxious. THAT is the only 'odd' behavior he shows as far as I'm concerned and I keep recommending a psychiatrist for that little problem. You see the world entirely from your own perspective and sadly it's a very very dim one But....if you're in the market for pots calling kettles black..you do keep popping up here just to harass and heckle..that could be considered cult-like behavior and something you might want to consider outgrowing ;D I will take a stab at explaining something to you. There are groups for recovering alcoholics, dope addicts, kidnap victims and victims of war trauma. The groups are designed to help people understand they are not alone..that there are others who can identify with whatever their experience. Not so much so for those who have experienced things more outside of the human 'norm'. When you start having flashbacks or nightmares of things so far removed from the human experience..it's almost cathartic to find others who can relate to the complete strangeness of the experience. Lets say you are kidnapped (who would do such a thing?) anyway..you are kidnapped and maybe they even do a bit of torture. You still have in common with your kidnapper..humanity. They look like you..to some extent may think like you. They eat similarly..breathe similarly etc...there are commonalities. Try it with something in-human...alien. There is nothing to identify with past arms and legs. So yep..we can appear a bit obsessive in our need to cope. Don't judge unless you've walked where we've walked please.
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Post by auntym on May 2, 2012 13:08:31 GMT -6
What about the secret hand shake? Ufo4Peace..my brain doesn't even WANT to understand you. Do you realize that Sky is the ONLY person advocating you being able to stay here? The rest of us would have happily jettisoned you out the nearest air lock long ago..but he keeps telling us you've changed..that you're better, less obnoxious. THAT is the only 'odd' behavior he shows as far as I'm concerned and I keep recommending a psychiatrist for that little problem. You see the world entirely from your own perspective and sadly it's a very very dim one But....if you're in the market for pots calling kettles black..you do keep popping up here just to harass and heckle..that could be considered cult-like behavior and something you might want to consider outgrowing ;D I will take a stab at explaining something to you. There are groups for recovering alcoholics, dope addicts, kidnap victims and victims of war trauma. The groups are designed to help people understand they are not alone..that there are others who can identify with whatever their experience. Not so much so for those who have experienced things more outside of the human 'norm'. When you start having flashbacks or nightmares of things so far removed from the human experience..it's almost cathartic to find others who can relate to the complete strangeness of the experience. Lets say you are kidnapped (who would do such a thing?) anyway..you are kidnapped and maybe they even do a bit of torture. You still have in common with your kidnapper..humanity. They look like you..to some extent may think like you. They eat similarly..breathe similarly etc...there are commonalities. Try it with something in-human...alien. There is nothing to identify with past arms and legs. So yep..we can appear a bit obsessive in our need to cope. Don't judge unless you've walked where we've walked please. ;D .... I LIKE THIS POST... ;D ... good one jo... jo, i've always admired the way you get your point across... you're a good writer...
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 14:54:45 GMT -6
It means you have a strong emotional attachment to something that becomes a part of your identity. Your own identity is threatened when the attachment is broken creating strong feelings to the point of delusion and obsession. In reality a person may have been trying to fill a void or inadequacy in their own life by becoming to attached to an organization. Sometimes you see this type of behavior with disgruntled employees. I see. So you make up your own definition of the word "cult" that does not agree with the dictionary. Perhaps you should write your own dictionary UFO4peace- either that or use words correctly which I think is beyond your ability since you don't even know the difference between "to" and "too" which I learned in second grade.
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Post by auntym on May 2, 2012 15:20:40 GMT -6
personally i think ufo4p should go and investigate the hill randy talks about... and relieve himself on the ground and then pitch a tent & stay the night... go for it ufo4p... you can do it.... ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 16:57:00 GMT -6
Well..life does have a way of turning tables when you least expect it.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 2, 2012 20:43:02 GMT -6
personally i think ufo4p should go and investigate the hill randy talks about... and relieve himself on the ground and then pitch a tent & stay the night... go for it ufo4p... you can do it.... ;D If I can tell right away somethings is fake I don't waste my time on it. There are a lot of these paranormal/conspiracy forums and you can tell just by reading a few sentences if a person is being sincere.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 2, 2012 20:44:26 GMT -6
It means you have a strong emotional attachment to something that becomes a part of your identity. Your own identity is threatened when the attachment is broken creating strong feelings to the point of delusion and obsession. In reality a person may have been trying to fill a void or inadequacy in their own life by becoming to attached to an organization. Sometimes you see this type of behavior with disgruntled employees. I see. So you make up your own definition of the word "cult" that does not agree with the dictionary. Perhaps you should write your own dictionary UFO4peace- either that or use words correctly which I think is beyond your ability since you don't even know the difference between "to" and "too" which I learned in second grade. Sometimes people will have a cult-like following when it comes to music for example.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 2, 2012 20:47:45 GMT -6
I will take a stab at explaining something to you. There are groups for recovering alcoholics, dope addicts, kidnap victims and victims of war trauma. The groups are designed to help people understand they are not alone..that there are others who can identify with whatever their experience. Not so much so for those who have experienced things more outside of the human 'norm'. When you start having flashbacks or nightmares of things so far removed from the human experience..it's almost cathartic to find others who can relate to the complete strangeness of the experience. What did your aliens look like? Were they the typical Greys, wrinkled, pale white, blue, dark entities?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 23:16:15 GMT -6
UFO4peace..my story is in several places here if you're interested in reading it.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 23:34:26 GMT -6
I see. So you make up your own definition of the word "cult" that does not agree with the dictionary. Perhaps you should write your own dictionary UFO4peace- either that or use words correctly which I think is beyond your ability since you don't even know the difference between "to" and "too" which I learned in second grade. Sometimes people will have a cult-like following when it comes to music for example. Yes. And that means they "admire" or "worship" the artist who made the music. Like the Justin Bieber fan girls... Completely different thing. Skywalker does not "admire" or "worship" aliens. I'm sure if aliens landed on his front lawn he wouldn't scream like a 12 year old girl and throw himself at their feet quivering with ecstasy. Like I said- you fail to understand the true definition of the word "cult".
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Post by ufo4peace on May 2, 2012 23:39:59 GMT -6
UFO4peace..my story is in several places here if you're interested in reading it. Link?
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Post by ufo4peace on May 2, 2012 23:43:26 GMT -6
Completely different thing. Skywalker does not "admire" or "worship" aliens. I'm not picking on Skywalker but former MUFON types who are pretty emotionally attached/obsessed with the organization.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 23:56:29 GMT -6
Does anybody have any comments on what Elaine said? Do you think that what she is trying to do is a worthwhile goal? Is she wasting her time or do you think she actually has a chance to succeed? Do you think MUFON is even worth saving? I see a lot of cult-like behaviour from former MUFON members. I noticed Skywalker especially still goes to MUFON's forum to complain. There comes a point where you just need to let things go and move forward. That being said I think a lot of MUFON's problems has to do with the changing times. You now claim that you weren't saying skywalker exhibits cult-like behavior- and yet you mentioned him specifically in an informal paragraph that beings with a sentence (one might consider it to be the subject of the paragraph) pertaining to individuals like him (former MUFON members- of which he is one such individual) who exhibit cult-like behavior... hmm... Sure. I'll go along with that and consider it to be an independent statement.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 3, 2012 0:06:25 GMT -6
You now claim that you weren't saying skywalker exhibits cult-like behavior- and yet you mentioned him specifically in an informal paragraph that beings with a sentence (one might consider it to be the subject of the paragraph) pertaining to individuals like him (former MUFON members- of which he is one such individual) who exhibit cult-like behavior... hmm... Sure. I'll go along with that and consider it to be an independent statement. leia77 do you have a job? It's the early AM hours. Stanton Friedman for example will refer to SETI as a cult. The same can be said about people in UFOlogy.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2012 1:28:42 GMT -6
Ehh I disagree..cultism implies slavish worship..I haven't found one of these organizations yet that I worship and yes..I work (on my computer). I do think that a lot of people were angry with the 'waste' of MUFON. We Thought that organization was making a positive statement in UFO research and then it flopped. It was a let down. A lot of us really thought we would be on the brink of proving the UFO activity to everyone. It's impossible to adequately impress on someone how it felt. The fear..the embarrassment..the humiliation..the overwhelming vulnerability, the anger and the disgust. It is a 'thing' that is not human that inflicts pain emotionally and physically and then dismisses you like a good little lab rat. It stays with you and it haunts you and it demands answers. You never stop wondering about why..or what parts of your dna are where doing what. There have been times for me when it was overwhelming and obsessive but I guess in retrospect..I'm a he11 of a lot more patient with others tales of the spectacular and unusual because of it. Haven't gone postal and shot anyone yet..so that must be a good thing too ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2012 2:21:52 GMT -6
You now claim that you weren't saying skywalker exhibits cult-like behavior- and yet you mentioned him specifically in an informal paragraph that beings with a sentence (one might consider it to be the subject of the paragraph) pertaining to individuals like him (former MUFON members- of which he is one such individual) who exhibit cult-like behavior... hmm... Sure. I'll go along with that and consider it to be an independent statement. leia77 do you have a job? It's the early AM hours. Stanton Friedman for example will refer to SETI as a cult. The same can be said about people in UFOlogy. My last post was at 9:56 pm in my time zone. You're wrong again my igannant friend. (not surprisingly ) Not everyone lives in the same time zone as you do. Despite what you believe- the world actually does not revolve around you sweetheart You keep going back and forth on this. First you implied that you did in fact say what I had thought you had said and tried to defend yourself by stating a false definition of the word cult- then when I called you out on it you said that wasn't what you were trying to say. And now you've bounced back to the original statement- which you said you didn't mean... lol... You apparently can't make up your mind on what you're trying to say either. I know I can't understand what you're trying to say. It seems you and I are in the same boat here. And by the way- I do have a job although I don't technically get paid for it. I am an in-home care giver for my parents. I am a home dialysis technician for my father (he has trouble understanding how the machine works) and a housekeeper. I do laundry, dishes, cooking, cleaning and I assist my mother with bathing, dressing and getting in and out of the car. I also read stuff to her because she's blind and I answer the phone because they can't get to it usually without missing calls. I also push dad around in his wheelchair (he has a fractured hip but will get better soon hopefully) and I drive both of them to doctor's appointments. You seem to be extremely good at judging people you don't know. I think you really need to understand the things you are saying, I think you really need to understand the definition of the words you are using and I think you need to understand the people you communicate with on the internet before you go around accusing them of things which you invent in your own imagination- things which may or may not have any basis in reality as far as you know. It is now 12:15 in the morning in my time zone. My father has just taken off to go back to the big city where he is to be hospitalized again. The reason why I haven't been to bed yet is because I am worried about him- not because I don't have a job. So- if it is the wee hours of the morning where you are- why are YOU online? Don't YOU have a job?
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Post by skywalker on May 3, 2012 7:55:14 GMT -6
Does anybody have any comments on what Elaine said? Do you think that what she is trying to do is a worthwhile goal? Is she wasting her time or do you think she actually has a chance to succeed? Do you think MUFON is even worth saving? I see a lot of cult-like behaviour from former MUFON members. I noticed Skywalker especially still goes to MUFON's forum to complain. There comes a point where you just need to let things go and move forward. That being said I think a lot of MUFON's problems has to do with the changing times. I kind of like the reply that Jo made earlier but I would like to add a few things to it. First of all, I am not a "former MUFON member." In spite of everything that has happened and all the times that they have really ticked me off the past several years I am still a MUFON member. Not because I have any overwhelming desire to stay there, I'm just trying to maintain the connections that I have made and stay updated on any developments in the world of ufology. I am also a member of EPIC as well as several other organizations. I don't hate MUFON...I am not thrilled about a lot of things that have been going on there in recent times but there are still a lot of good people there and they have the potential to once again be a good investigative organization, but in order for them to do that they need to stop screwing things up and do a better job. They seem to be at least attempting to make corrections which is why I have toned down my criticisms quite a bit in the past few months. The recent comments that I made on their forum about Bigelow and MUFON's relationship with him were not criticisms. I was merely stating the facts in order to answer a question that was asked by one of the members there. If the facts seem like criticisms than that is MUFON's problem, not mine. I would also like to point out the fact that a lot of the things that I and a lot of other people have been criticing MUFON about are things that they are actually trying to improve on. A lot of people may not realize that the Committee to Reform MUFON actually did accomplish some of its goals. They did not totally succeed in their main goal of having the Board members chosen by elections and because of that people assume that the Committee failed but MUFON did give in on some other things...even though they may not want to admit it. Elaine and the rest of the Committee deserve credit for attempting to invoke positive changes in a faltering organization and I am glad that I got to play a part in it, even if it was just a small one.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2012 16:05:26 GMT -6
I thought you said you quit MUFON sky... Or maybe you quit and rejoined it? Or maybe I'm imagining things...
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Post by ufo4peace on May 3, 2012 22:09:49 GMT -6
The reason why I haven't been to bed yet is because I am worried about him- not because I don't have a job. So- if it is the wee hours of the morning where you are- why are YOU online? Don't YOU have a job? Things going on in your personal life will build character and help you grow up more. I have a job = off hours.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 3, 2012 22:14:53 GMT -6
I see a lot of cult-like behaviour from former MUFON members. I noticed Skywalker especially still goes to MUFON's forum to complain. There comes a point where you just need to let things go and move forward. That being said I think a lot of MUFON's problems has to do with the changing times. I kind of like the reply that Jo made earlier but I would like to add a few things to it. First of all, I am not a "former MUFON member." In spite of everything that has happened and all the times that they have really ticked me off the past several years I am still a MUFON member. Not because I have any overwhelming desire to stay there, I'm just trying to maintain the connections that I have made and stay updated on any developments in the world of ufology. I am also a member of EPIC as well as several other organizations. I don't hate MUFON...I am not thrilled about a lot of things that have been going on there in recent times but there are still a lot of good people there and they have the potential to once again be a good investigative organization, but in order for them to do that they need to stop screwing things up and do a better job. They seem to be at least attempting to make corrections which is why I have toned down my criticisms quite a bit in the past few months. The recent comments that I made on their forum about Bigelow and MUFON's relationship with him were not criticisms. I was merely stating the facts in order to answer a question that was asked by one of the members there. If the facts seem like criticisms than that is MUFON's problem, not mine. I would also like to point out the fact that a lot of the things that I and a lot of other people have been criticing MUFON about are things that they are actually trying to improve on. A lot of people may not realize that the Committee to Reform MUFON actually did accomplish some of its goals. They did not totally succeed in their main goal of having the Board members chosen by elections and because of that people assume that the Committee failed but MUFON did give in on some other things...even though they may not want to admit it. Elaine and the rest of the Committee deserve credit for attempting to invoke positive changes in a faltering organization and I am glad that I got to play a part in it, even if it was just a small one. Who actually controls MUFON? Is it a collective of board members? I never joined MUFON out of concerns of moles, spooks.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 3, 2012 22:16:31 GMT -6
An organization that compiles information on people and what is being reported would interest the intel community.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2012 1:22:18 GMT -6
The minute you log onto a computer..your um a$$.. is grass as far as 'intel' goes. The FBI has smart spyders..that constantly scour the web for key words used on forums and chat rooms..face book..twitter..porn sites, etc. They target useful words that sound treasonous or have particular interest to them. Threats to political members are high on their list. You can put money on them dropping by all of the UFO or conspiracy forums just to make sure people are just 'windy' and not a real threat. If...they considered any one here useful or worrisome..you'd already have had a visit
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Post by skywalker on May 4, 2012 18:32:21 GMT -6
I thought you said you quit MUFON sky... Or maybe you quit and rejoined it? Or maybe I'm imagining things... I did quit MUFON after they cancelled the forum. But then last summer I found out they were going to have Travis Walton appear as a guest at one of their meatings in Texas so I joined up again because I wanted to meet Travis. Unfortunately they cancelled the meeting because they could not sell enough tickets to cover their expenses. Once again MUFON disappointed me. I haven't decided if I will renew my membership when it expires this summer. If I'm going to invest my time, effort and money into something I want it to mean something...I want to be contributing to something...and I want to get something back in return. When I first joined MUFON I thought that's what we were doing...all working together to help reveal the truth about UFOs. Since Clifford Clift decided that members are really nothing more than journal subscribers I really don't see what the point of it is. If I just wanted to be a "subscriber" there are a lot of UFO magazines out there that are of a much higher quality and cheaper price than the MUFON journal.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 4, 2012 21:47:37 GMT -6
The minute you log onto a computer..your um a$$.. is grass as far as 'intel' goes. The FBI has smart spyders..that constantly scour the web for key words used on forums and chat rooms..face book..twitter..porn sites, etc. They target useful words that sound treasonous or have particular interest to them. Threats to political members are high on their list. You can put money on them dropping by all of the UFO or conspiracy forums just to make sure people are just 'windy' and not a real threat. If...they considered any one here useful or worrisome..you'd already have had a visit I noticed my computer becoming very sluggish after logging into some forums. I could be a computer thing.
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Post by ufo4peace on May 4, 2012 21:50:48 GMT -6
I thought you said you quit MUFON sky... Or maybe you quit and rejoined it? Or maybe I'm imagining things... I did quit MUFON after they cancelled the forum. But then last summer I found out they were going to have Travis Walton appear as a guest at one of their meatings in Texas so I joined up again because I wanted to meet Travis. Unfortunately they cancelled the meeting because they could not sell enough tickets to cover their expenses. Once again MUFON disappointed me. I haven't decided if I will renew my membership when it expires this summer. If I'm going to invest my time, effort and money into something I want it to mean something...I want to be contributing to something...and I want to get something back in return. When I first joined MUFON I thought that's what we were doing...all working together to help reveal the truth about UFOs. Since Clifford Clift decided that members are really nothing more than journal subscribers I really don't see what the point of it is. If I just wanted to be a "subscriber" there are a lot of UFO magazines out there that are of a much higher quality and cheaper price than the MUFON journal. Skywalker, you're kind of proving my point. You can't quit MUFON. You're a borg part of the collective.
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Post by skywalker on May 4, 2012 21:59:52 GMT -6
MUFON is no different than any of the other countless UFO organizations that have come and gone. One day they will disappear and be replaced by somebody else. In the long run it doesn't matter. The UFOs will still be flying and people will still be trying to identify them.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 0:51:27 GMT -6
Ahhh OK. Thanks for clearing that up...
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